No 5 Mk I

I have a No 5 Mk I that I've owned for something like 20 years now. For financial reasons, I need to sell it and have a buyer lined up, but I don't have a clear idea what it's worth.

General condition is:
Bore isn’t super-bright, but there’s no excessive wear, rust or pitting.

The finish IS worn and irregular, and there are some small rust spots in the grooves of the lathe marks on the exterior of the barrel on the right side between the muzzle cap and the wood.

It’s not completely number’s matching – the bolt and body match, but the magazine doesn’t. Also, the magazine in painted green – I’ve been told by several people this indicates the rifle was sent to Malaya during the Emergency, though I’ve found no independent verification of this.

The wood has dents and dings, but no splits or repairs.

Images will follow this evening when I have a chance to figure out what my Photobucket password is...

If it's any help Worldwide Arms Ltd has de-acc versions for sale here in the U.K. for £695 and can be viewed on their website. I believe they are worth significantly more than a comparable No4. I hope this helps.

Thanks, but I'm in the States and this No 5 is still very much alive!

Photos: https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC09715-1.jpg
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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC09722-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC09721-1.jpg
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$450 to $500 would be a fair retail price here in that condition.

Not sure what they make in the States, but the rifles are becoming a collectors piece worldwide and fairly rare right now to boot, and I would hope to see you get a good price for it on that basis. I would say £550-650 this side of the pond is a good price, especially with your provenance of 20 years ownership.
Don't accept a to low a figure they still hold good money.;)

most run 450 an up here in my area

This gun is going to sell in the US so that would be what value I'd be considering. Even where I am a nice one won't fetch more than about $500 CDN...people may ask more...and the repost every week. If you go look on Gunbroker, you'll likely find a few to compare.

Already checked Gunbroker and it seems like they're all over the place price-wise.

I bought one in Sept 2014, matching numbers on bolt and receiver but missing a magazine. Nice bore but woodwork a little dinged. Cost me $450

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Originally Posted by Longshaor

all over the place price-wise.

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That will have to do with the condition, to me a good barrel is important in the value.

Yeah. It’s the same at our local gun shows. Some people ask way more than they normally sell for. They bring the same overpriced guns to every show...... and take them home.

If a deal on a gun looks too good to be true, there’s probably a reason.

In the middle is where the vast majority of used guns are bought and sold.

Sure, there will be some haggling and maybe a story, what we call “romancing” the gun. That’s all part of a gun show. In the end a fair price will get you a smile and a handshake.

Old collector guns are all about feeling good. Nobody needs an old Enfield. The buyer is treating himself to something he wants. It’s a bit like buying and selling art. The “value” is only what someone will pay to have something they enjoy.

Some good Milsurps safety sayings or terms come to mind:

If the story is too good to be true, it normally is.

Buy the gun not the story

Albeit a bit of authenticated provenance can help the price!!!

That would probably be priced to sell at $450 in my area more if it was in a little better condt. , Ray

Here we go round and around the mulberry bush again......... There's only only one place to achieve what it's worth. And that's at an auction. How many more times........... There's only three types of value. The price, the cost and the worth. And that's NOT what you or anyone else thinks it's worth but what the BUYER thinks its worth.

Just my 2c's worth...... again!

Peter,

As long as you're here, may I ask you to weigh in on two points on this rifle?

I've never seen a serial number this short on a British rifle. Is that normal for the No 5?

Is there any truth to what I've been told that the green magazine indicates a rifle that was sent to Malaya during the Emergency?

Just my own curiosity here...

The magazine may have...

We didn't paint the magazines green or any colour except black. The crunchies used to daub their rifles and shotguns with green and yellow paint when on ops but they didn't stay that way for long I have to say. When they came into the Armourers shops they had to be in service condition when they left - within reason. The trouble with a lot of the oil based paints and the spirit based stuff is if wasn't baked on hard was that the insect repellent would just soften it and it'd come off easily

The short serial number is just that. A short 3 figure number that is insignificant.

I would imagine that the magazine will just be an ex Indian one taken from another rifle

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

The crunchies used to daub their rifles and shotguns with paint

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Yes...sometimes...then it was a mess to remove.

Just to add some more data to the thread, the prices of No. 5s seem all over the place in Australia. I've seen them advertised for between AUD$500 and AUD$1000, but one of the issues is that I see quite a few sporterised No. 4s being advertised as No. 5s (with the price tag to match) when they clearly aren't.

Also, as others have mentioned - just because someone's got a $1000 price tag on something doesn't mean that's what they'll end up selling it for.

Thanks for all the input guys. I used to own three of these, and I believe I paid between $450 and $500 for all of them, though that was in the mid-1990s. Kind of surprised prices seem to have stayed flat all these years.

The really nice ones have risen some.

I wonder if the painted mag was an effort to provided some kind of added corrosion resistance in a damp, tropical atmosphere??? No idea by who but perhaps after it was sold by the U.K.?

I can only speak for myself and our Regiment. If I, or any other soldier had "hand painted" a magazine in such a way, I know where I would have spent a few nights........in the slammer!! The wroth of the REME ARMOURER would have hurt your ears to boot:lol:

It wouldn't have been done by a trained soldier, because a trained infanteer would know better and realise such slop or paint on the metalwork of a magazine, would eventually lead to paint coming off and intermingling with rounds and causing the inevitable stoppages that would definately follow.

In the jungle we ensured our "best friend" was oiled daily including the inner and outer workings of the magazines.
I would counter a guess that this magazine was painted to enhance its sales prospects on the civilian market following some heavy scratches or dents.
The only outer covering I have ever seen on a magazine is tape on sniper rifles, or odd white tape cuttings well away from the action for Arctic warfare camouflage usage!
IMHO anyway for what its worth;)

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Originally Posted by Vincent

Yeah. It’s the same at our local gun shows. Some people ask way more than they normally sell for. They bring the same overpriced guns to every show...... and take them home.

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It's the exact same here in Dallas, Vincent... I've always wondered what those guys are doing at shows with the same six or so WAY overpriced guns month after month, and even year after year that never sell. We have a gun show here about every other weekend, and I see the same shady guys with the same crazy priced guns at shows all over the D/FW Metroplex... It costs $50 - $60 for a single table here, plus parking fees both days, and I've always wondered what those guys are about... Even if they did get someone to pay their crazy prices someday, they've still lost money. I guess they get a thrill out of hoping to sell a 'sucker' their overpriced gun someday... I'm certain these sellers MUST know the real market value of their guns after all those shows they didn't sell anything month after month.

Sometimes I think they're just showing off - "Look at this gun I have", rather than expecting to sell them.

Several years ago I was at a gun show in Queensland and there was someone there with a couple of deactivated machine-guns for sale (They still require a special, hard to get licence, a permit to acquire, and have extra security requirements, despite effectively being paperweights.) I recall seeing a BAR for about $20,000 and I think there was an Austen or something similar for not much less.

Point is, a collector or re-enactor with a spare $20k lying about isn't going to be wandering about a gunshow and go "Ah, a deactivated BAR! And for only $20,000! Lucky I brought some walking-around money with me today. I'll have my butler put it in the boot of the Bentley after tiffin."

The stuff at that price/collectability level changes hands among a select group of Serious Collectors on a word-of-mouth basis; the average punter almost never sees it because they can't afford it.

I can only surmise one of the major reasons for having guns like "for sale"* that at a gun show may be to basically say "Ho, ho, ho, I have a machine-gun. Look upon my collection, ye mighty, and despair."

I see similar things with some of the pawnbroking/auction hunting-type shows on TV - someone shows up with an improbably expensive or rare item (In an episode of one of those shows I recall someone had a Hotchkiss 2pdr Mountain Gun they allegedly wanted to sell!), but of course they can't agree on a price and so the owner departs with the item. While it makes for interesting TV, I think we all know the reality is that anyone who has something as interesting as a Hotchkiss Mountain Gun or an actual Sengoku period Katana that they need to sell for whatever reason would be infinitely more likely to contact other collectors, their local museum or historical society or even go on the internet before deciding to take it into a pawnbrokers (even one which features in its own TV show).

*Air Quotes fully intended

I was just wondering, do you think maybe some of these guys are jacking the prices way up because their wives told them to sell and they don't want to? "Yes dear, I'm trying to sell but the right buyer just hasn't come by yet".

reading the prices for No5's around the world is interesting, in NZ they seem to often sell for less than a No4 in the same condition-the last one i followed at auction sold for under nz$350 but have seen them go for less.

20 years ago I paid $350.00. I would not hesitate myself to pick one up for $550.00 if I didn't have one already with no import marks and all matching numbers. The non-matching magazine can bring it down a little bit but it wouldn't settle for less than $550.00. It seems like we are seeing a lot of WWII rifles hitting the market.

I just picked up a nice Remington 1903A3 all matching but has a Smith Corona bolt. Easy to find one if I want to change it. It gave me a nice 1 inch group yesterday.