Can any former British tanker provide some information on this M2 tripod?

I know this forum is populated by many former British and Commonwealth servicemen. I'm hoping one of these can provide some assistance.

A friend of mine recently suffered the loss of a relative. He and his family are collecting all the deceased's gun stuff, categorizing it, and getting ready to sell it in order to offset funeral expenses. He called me recently to take a look at what they dug up. In the pile of "stuff" was an M2 tripod like I never saw before. It has a cast aluminum cross head and a pintle that utilizes a chain attached QD cross pin instead of a nut and bolt. The pin works exactly like a Colt M35 tripod cross pin. Nobody knows where the tripod came from. The T&E also utilizes a cross pin that is identical to the pintle's.

At first everyone who has seen the tripod has identified it as an FN build due to the cross pins. But, both Dolf Goldsmith and Alex Krueger, formerly of the Nimitz Museum in Fredericksburg Texas, have identified it as a post WWII British build. Why on earth would the Brits build a new M2 tripod when Europe was flooded with surplus US M2 tripods? Dolf said that this tripod and T&E were issued to British tankers only and not the British Army in general. They were to be used with the tank's 1919A4 machine gun when dismounted. He states this tripod assembly is far more rigid than its US counterparts and the British tankers wanted a more stable shooting platform. Alex said a picture of this tripod is shown in a Ferret manual. So I guess it may have been issued there too. Both Dolf and Alex said this is only second or third example of this tripod seen in the US. Is there any additional documentation for it out there?

Here are some pictures. As you can see, it is truly a "Barn Find":

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...blapmvwb-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bzdwabgf-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...58p3ydwy-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jcdsdqsx-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rferesfy-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...mwsdynzb-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...gzlfcy4t-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...vyru5h5u-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...wlakmsgz-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jxcj6ucy-1.jpg

I was an Armourer with The Royal Hussars for a short while in the very early 70's on Centurions and Chieftains, both of which had .50 and .30 Browning machine guns. They also had a .30" ground tripod housed in an external turret stowage bin. To my knowledge, they were all the bog standard US issue tripods. We also had some at the School of Infantry and they were the same bog standards too.

Maybe yours was sort-of adapted for use with the old BESA guns, but I doubt it as they weren't readily demountable from the tanks as were the old .30" Brownings.

The answer probably lies in the severe foreign exchange controls that existed in Britain post-war, and in particular the 'dollar gap'. With Lend-Lease abruptly terminated on 1st September 1945 and aid still in transit converted into a loan at 2%, which we only finished paying off a few years ago, there was an incentive to make domestically items which we were deficient in and capable of making.

Didn't read the text accompanying the images...text deleted.

I don't understand that Mk7........ If we/UK were making them, they'd be in use in our 60's and 70's tanks and other AFV's surely? That cross pin retaining method is nothing I've ever seen before on machine guns. And we'd be using the standard Vckers method - and the Vickers type chain that came from Ordnance in 12" lengths.

I don't know of course but just putting across the negative side

Except for the gun mounting pintle it looks like a bod standard GPMG M60 tripod

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

... That cross pin retaining method is nothing I've ever seen before on machine guns. ...

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That method is exactly what is used on a commercial Colt M35 tripod from the inter war period. I know this because I have an ersatz Colt 1928 water cooled gun along with its period correct M35 tripod. A little less than 1000 of these were sold by Colt to Argentina from 1928 through 1930. They made it back to the US in the late '80s where they were reincarnated.

My amateur photos below may not show the cross pin retaining method clearly, but I can assure you they are identical to the M2's above.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SN150133-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SN150134-1.jpg

To correctly insert the M35 cross pins, one must position both cross pin handles to the 12:00 position and insert them. When the handles drop, the cross pins are locked.

On the M2 tripod pictured above, both cross pin handles are placed at the 9:00 position for insertion.

We also had the cross pins like that on our M113 cradle mounts for the 1919A4/C5 MGs.

Good idea to lock the pins but I'm just saying that I ain't seen them in UK service in answer to the suggestion that the tripod might have come from the UK MIlitary. It would tend to suggest that whatever it is, it's a US origin tripod

There should be markings to that effect. There should be a small ID plate on it unless it's been removed. Maybe some engraved nomenclature on the head... Also, at the tripod head, there should be a ring of bronze around the pintle hole. Where that depression is...keeps things from rusting and allows some dry lubrication...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

There should be markings to that effect. There should be a small ID plate on it unless it's been removed. Maybe some engraved nomenclature on the head... Also, at the tripod head, there should be a ring of bronze around the pintle hole. Where that depression is...keeps things from rusting and allows some dry lubrication...

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There are no engravings, stampings, or ID plates attached. I can ask my buddy for clearer pictures of the pintle race, but both tripod head top view and bottom view photos show no evidence of brass/bronze construction. I guess a brass/bronze ring was considered unnecessary as the tripod head is made of aluminum.

Figures 8 and 9 on Page 26 of this FN manual seems to show this tripod, but the picture is not clear enough to be certain.
http://browningmgs.com/FN/Manual/FN30_English.pdf

Those pictures are also shown here: FN mounts
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...GroundFN-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...M2Folded-1.jpg

Again, there is insufficient detail to confirm the origin of the original tripod.

I tried to contact FN to see if they had any information. But after six weeks, they have yet to respond.

I just found this tantalizing photo on a Russian site. While the tripod base looks to be identical, the pintle and T&E are incorrect. No cross pins are shown either.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1919fn30-1.jpg

Does anyone have Ferret Armored Car manual available?

FN manufacture?

The same style of legs (albeit somewhat daintier, found their way under the MINIMI.

There have also been several "adaptations" of the standard (and "clone" tripods) for the trusty old M1919, .30cal. to accept all manner of hardware.