backyard sporter

Hoping someone can help... I picked up a VERY cheap M17 that had been sporterised in the most basic way. It had been rebarrelled, which was in surprisingly good shape, but the rest is rough as guts. The main problem is the scope rings- they appear to have been welded:( onto the receiver which looks as though it was cut down with an angle grinder.

What I need to know is if welding to the receiver has done any damage to the heat treatment, and would carefully grinding the bodgy scope rings off be advisable? I could then find a competent gunsmith to fit proper mounts on. Not sure who would butcher a rifle like this so badly, but it does shoot and work remarkably well. The alternative is to just leave it as is (seeing it works) and just smooth off the rough edges. Any ideas appreciated.

Sounds like it may be too far gone to help. I'm not sure it's worth more than parts(barrel).

Tough call, not sure I can express this as the thoughts fly all over the map.

Technically welding on the receiver is a total compromise of the integrity of the gun.

I know of one recovered drill rifle that blew up due to a stress crack of the weld on the barrel to receiver area.

Realistic its back on the receiver and not the barrel that's been welded (or the interface stress area. Its forgiving metal mix on the 1917s (not so on the 1903s, particularly early ones)

I doubt a gunsmith would touch it.

Its really more an emotional decision than a technical one though to shoot or not is?

It could be very dangerous or just fine. One of those it would cost an enormous amount to find out that is not close to worth the costs. Engineers could only guess, reality is you would have to test it extensively in a remote mount. Even an engineer that had say done it to another rifle would not be able to extrapolate to yours as welds all differ.

Obviously you have shot it and really that's your decision to keep doing so or stop.

Cast lead bullets at low powder loads might work but then again you just don't know.

I am not sure what I would do though likely not have bought the gun.

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Originally Posted by RC20

I am not sure I would have bought the gun.

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For me, no way would I even take it. It's likely of little use. Probably dangerous...but he doesn't seem worried about our thoughts. He hasn't been back since the 2nd of the month.

Do you have any pictures? Wonder if it could be a sportered original P.14 sniper.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

For me, no way would I even take it. It's likely of little use. Probably dangerous...but he doesn't seem worried about our thoughts. He hasn't been back since the 2nd of the month.

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Actually , I do appreciate the feedback. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to sit down and browse through forums on a regular basis; I get very little down time, so to speak, and less time for leisure activities. Anyway, I am able to respond now, so I'll ignore the barbed comment.

Considering I initially bought the rifle for spare parts for next to nothing, I am streets ahead just on that aspect. I have a custom M17 single shot target rifle, and the price of spare parts is exorbitant. I paid more for a second hand extractor for my target rifle than I did for this complete rifle. Gun parts in Australia are like our gun laws; nothing but a P.I.T.A. It costs as much for shipping from the U.S as it does for the part. So for my measly outlay, I ended up with a complete bolt, firing pin, trigger assembly, magazine follower, floor plate, spring, extractor, ejector, and a spare 25 cal barrel and stock. The scope rings are also salvageable. My only question as to whether the backyard weld job had affected the heat treatment of the action, although the mentality of the previous owner does come to mind. I love the challenge of restoration, but not at the expense of losing an eye or worse. Pity I can't get an Islamic extremist to test fire a few hot rounds for me.......

Just my 3 cents worth as RC 20 alluded the heating could have altered the physical properties of the receiver, me do some research on the markings and see what you have but for what its worth I would break it up ditch the receiver and carry on
ARADO just a bit of advice I would edit out your last line of #6 as one of the rules for these forums is no Political or Religious statements if you don't then probably one of the mod's will

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

Just my 3 cents worth as RC 20 alluded the heating could have altered the physical properties of the receiver, me do some research on the markings and see what you have but for what its worth I would break it up ditch the receiver and carry on
ARADO just a bit of advice I would edit out your last line of #6 as one of the rules for these forums is no Political or Religious statements if you don't then probably one of the mod's will

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Thanks for the advice; I keep forgetting you can't have a black sense of humour without upsetting someone. Any Idea how to edit out the last line; I can't see an "edit Post" icon anywhere?

On the bottom bar in white letters right side it will say edit post your the only one apart from mod's that can edit your post

Still, would you mind posting pictures of the rifle? If the rings were welded, it would probably also be a safety bug if the original heat treatment was damaged.

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Originally Posted by RC20

Technically welding on the receiver is a total compromise of the integrity of the gun. I know of one recovered drill rifle that blew up due to a stress crack of the weld on the barrel to receiver area. Its really more an emotional decision than a technical one though to shoot or not is? It could be very dangerous or just fine. One of those it would cost an enormous amount to find out that is not close to worth the costs. Reality is you would have to test it extensively in a remote mount. Cast lead bullets at low powder loads might work but then again you just don't know.

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This is really the best advice.

Here's what I would do, FWIW: Cut/Grind off the ugly mounts (by hand, not a cutting torch), smooth the scars on receiver, inspect for any cracks or flaws, apply some cold blue, and follow the instructions above, using a remote firing rig. Then inspect again.

For heavens sake, don't think of this gun as a regular shooter -- it's now a collector's piece. Document what you've done, roll it up into a scroll and stuff the scroll in the butt-plate hole for posterity. An armourer would probably have taken this rifle out of service or at least given it a Drill Practice (DP) designation. Consider putting a small engraved plate on the gun stating "for Emergency Use Only" so that some poor soul in a future generation doesn't blow his hand off (or worse). There are several of stories on this site of people whose old guns blew up from stress fractures on old WWI vintage guns that had been shot too many times or used ammo that was just too powerful. Your life, or someone else's is at stake. Good Luck!

Thanks for added advice. I'm sorry if I was a little annoyed in an earlier post; I simply don't get much opportunity to shoot or tinker, let alone be a regular forum browser....maybe when I retire???? As previously mentioned, this will be for spares, and I am going to have my first attempt at removing a barrel from an action. While I be as cautious as possible, It won't really matter if I make a mistake or do some cosmetic damage, as the action will then be discarded/ rendered inoperative. Prior to that, I also intend to do some trigger honing, and some experimental work such as cock on opening etc, so the whole project will be a good gunsmithing learning tool. Better to practice on a very cheap dubious rifle, than risk stuffing up my collectors piece. Cheers...

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Originally Posted by AradoAR234

Anyway, I am able to respond now, so I'll ignore the barbed comment.

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It wasn't really barbed, I can certainly do better than that...what I was trying to point out was we shouldn't keep trying to convince ourselves what should be done when the OP gave us no return feedback. We do it so often, a poster asks and then never even comes back to check. Or they ask and then give no return on what they tried or did.

I understand that life gets in the way of things like this, things you'd like to do. It'll eventually get better...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

It wasn't really barbed, I can certainly do better than that...what I was trying to point out was we shouldn't keep trying to convince ourselves what should be done when the OP gave us no return feedback. We do it so often, a poster asks and then never even comes back to check. Or they ask and then give no return on what they tried or did.

I understand that life gets in the way of things like this, things you'd like to do. It'll eventually get better...

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No problems, no offence taken; I should know better than to get my nose out of joint over nothing. It's easy to get off on the wrong foot when you only just join a forum and don't know what to expect. I really do appreciate the advice though, and this looks like a good place to get sound advice, cheers, Michael

Which scope is mounted to this rifle?

Be aware that some of the bolt parts for the P-14 and M-1917 are not quite interchangeable.

The rifle did not come with a scope, ( the price was so low it would have been borderline robbery to take it with a scope!), but I fitted an old 4x Nikko to it. Whoever welded the mounts on got it spot on as well, as the scope fitted perfectly with no binding. It's such a shame that the previous owner did not do the job properly, but from what I know, some "gunsmiths" have had a very difficult time drilling and Tapping M17's. I have seen silver soldered scope mounts as well, but never welded.

This rifle originally came off a property in the Northern Territory, where qualified machinist are few and far between, so I don't know if the it ended up there after being re-barrelled to 25.06, or the whole job was done by the one person. It does not make sense that somebody would spend the time rebarrelling it, and then do such a rough job on the receiver. Given its age and general appearance, it has probably passed through a number of hands, and was used as a "throw in the back of the ute" rifle. It is worth far more in parts than what I paid for it, , and if I pick up a shot out M17, at least I have a barrel that I could have fitted. I was quoted around $700 for a replacement barrel, so I'm not complaining! There is enough potential there for a future custom build, so we'll see what eventuates. The biggest game in Tasmania is Fallow deer, so 25.06 is more than enough gun, cheers.

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Originally Posted by AradoAR234

I keep forgetting you can't have a black sense of humour without upsetting someone.

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Tell me about it! I'm a soldier married to a teacher. Makes for some interesting conversations when my "humour" doesn't pass modern (PC) muster :rolleyes:

Took my time getting back to it, but maybe things are not that bad. It seems that under the apparent welds, the front mount was silver soldered, and the there were only two small spot welds which actually broke off when I tapped them with a mallet!!!!! It had the appearance of being welded on with stainless on first inspection. Ditto for the rear one. A VERY rough job of grinding off the ears and silver soldering, obviously using the welds a spot to hold them in place while the solder was allowed to run under the and around the mounts. The angle grinder marks had me fooled initially, and the receiver had been painted with some weird kind of stoveblack, which came off when I used the wire brush on it. It appears to work quite well though, so I might persevere with it a bit more.....

---------- Post added at 06:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:49 PM ----------

Don't I know it; you can't say any thing about anyone unless it is a middle class heterosexual white male; they are fair game. EVERYONE else appears to be a minority group that screams discrimination......