Another headspace question for No4 MK1

Quick question, Ive got a No4 MK1 (F) dated 1/49 I bought last year. The gun is matching numbers except for the bolt and body. I haven't fired it yet and was looking at getting some headspace gauges (Okies) and don't know which to get. Ive read where some people use the GO, NO-GO, and FIELD gauges, some just use the NO-GO and FIELD gauges, and some people just use the FIELD gauge.

Can I just use a FIELD gauge or do I need to get all 3 or just go with a NO-GO and FIELD? The ammo Ill be firing is the Prvi Partisan 174gr FMJs. I don't reload so that's not an issue for me.

Thanks

Fit the bolt to the body correctly as per the detailed instructions on this very forum somewhere. Or have it done by someone who knows what he's doing as opposed to some enthusiastic amateur. Brian Dick at BDL is about 2" from you in SC according to my world atlas

Next a question for you. In Britain, where we invented the rifle, we have never used anything except the standard .303" GO and NO gauges of .064" and ,074". So why on earth would anyone in the known universe want to put a gauge inbetween and call it a field? Save yourself the money! Get bolt fitted properly and get the CHS done to those specs.

Forget the Okie coin gauges. Get real mil spec gauges. The GO gauge at .064 is standard but you will have to call Forster or Clymer to get them to make you a custom .074. I used to stock MoD spec gauges here but the company in Austrailia that made them doesn't offer them anymore.

Peter: (IIRC) In the U.S., it is the 'Field' gauge that would measure .074". (The 'No Go' is the intermediate gauge).

In general, if a bolt closes on the 'No Go' gauge, it may indicate a problem. However, a rifle may still be useable, if the bolt does not close on the thicker 'Field' gauge.

Crazy, the order in which we named them in the U.S. - Min. 'Go' / Int. 'No Go' / Max. 'Field'.

We ignore the U.S. SAAMI specifications when working on Lee Enfield rifles. It's pretty much useless. Except of course the GO spec of .064 which is the same.

It's not a point that warrants any discussion! When I buy a VW car, I don't make waves or want trouble so I stick to the VW spec when I service it. When I buy a Lee Enfield I refer to the manufacturers spec.................. It really is as simple as that!

Apex has .064" GO and .074" NO-GO gauges.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...auge_064-1.jpg

Headspace Gauge, 303 British, MINIMUM, 1.63 mm (0.064 in.)

Headspace Gauge, 303 British, MAXIMUM, 1.88 mm (0.074 in.)

They also have a .070" “BASE MAXIMUM” :dunno: :confused:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...gauge_07-1.jpg

That "Base Maximum" is what is termed the No Go gauge here in the US and is the cause of so much confusion. I think it was done in the US just to separate people from their money and make them worry about nothing. In my opinion it should be scrapped. As Peter and Brian stated, the .064 and .074 are the specs and are all that matter.

I had a competent machinist make me up a set .064, .067, .074 I gave him a WWII Mk VII round to set the gauges taper made them 1 inch long I checked them with a caliper they are bang on I still do not know why I had the .067 made up but for a 12 pack of beer it was a good investment and who's complaining.

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Sometimes the barter system is used in Aus to acquire things I cannot say how long it took him to turn them up but I think I got out of it pretty cheap

I suspect that it is the availability of head space gauges in the US that cause the fixation with head space on that side of the pond - often to the exclusion of things that actually count! It's just not seen over here.

The .067 is a No-Go gauge for the Vickers MMG.

From an old re-post by Cantom of a few years ago ... not sure who the original author was, but I always thought it was an interesting post on the subject of head spacing for Enfields, which seems to be the most widely published and discussed content on the Internet .. :lol:

Quote:

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Headspace on an Enfield is measured using British gauges: the minimum is supposed to be .064", which is the rim thickness of a military round, and .074", which therefore allowed .01" tolerance (in wartime, this tolerance was further increased to .084").

You will see that there is a lot of fuss by people who believe that their Enfield is out of spec. This is because the SAAMI gauges retailed by several manufacturers are different to the British gauges, and give a false reading. Part of the reason for this is that commercial US .303 brass often has a thinner rim than British or other manufacture.

Despite what you may read elsewhere, headspace does not cause a safety issue. Consider the bald facts that c.12 million Enfields of all models were made, and there is not - to my knowledge - even one case of one "blowing up" whilst using normal ammunition.

The "accuracy" aspect is debatable: target shooters, particularly in Australia, did indeed measure rim thickness and try and tighetn up the headspace - usually to .067", which is the optimum measurement. However, the rifle do not neccesarily react to tighter headspace, and can in fact become less accurate. I've tested dozens of rifles, swapping between long and short boltheads, and there is rarely any significant improvement. The overwhelming factors that determine accuracy are (1) correct stock fit (2) barrel condition (3) shooter ability. No(3) is significant: I've witnessed a sample of about 350 people shooting Enfields; only about 10% of those shooters were capable of the tight grouping from which other factors can be deduced. Ergo, for most people, tinkering with the rifle isn't going to help.

Other small warnings:

(a) the only reason an Enfield usually needs a change of bolthead is if it has been rebarrelled or ahd a new bolt fitted. The rifles were designed to be fired with wet ammunition and cope with extreme conditions. Most Enfields are still perfectly in spec with the bolthead they left the factory or service with - 100+ years ago, for some of them!

(b) over-tightening the headspace, by using the wrong gauge and then buying a longer bolthead, can cause premature wear to the rifle lugs.

(c) When an Enfield military armourer came to fit a new barrel, bolt or bolthead, he had boxes of spares from which to pick suitable components. This is vital, because the bolthead also has to be fitted for "over-rotation" as well as for length: if the bolthead rotates past the locking rib by more than a certain amount, then the recoil forces may be passing through the screw thread, rather than the bolt body. Civilian owners who go out and buy a single "longer" bolthead by mail order obviously take a chance that it will leave their rifle in spec - I suspect that most have in fact put their rifles "out of spec".

Before you go tinkering with your rifle, deduce what its best accuracy is, and if in fact it has a problem. Most No4s in average will shoot a 4" group at 100yds with any old milsurp or new commercial ammo. Many will shoot much better than this. Its always a good idea to obtain several types of .303 ammo, and see if your rifle "likes" one more than the others. Most Enfields will shoot best with flat-base bullets in milsurp MkVII ammo.

Most No4s can have their accuracy improved by just checking that the stocking-up is correct as per standard military issue. Sometimes a small corrective adjustment can dramatically improve grouping ability.

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Also, check the MKL for a good article by member Parashooter...

Headspace 101 for .303's (click here)

Regards,
Doug

Regards,
Doug

Ah, the .067 and the Vickers........ It was only that because the ,074 will not slide down the extractor but the actual N0-Go CHS is .074". We had a special .074" gauge for the Vickers that was ground away at the sides so as to clear the extractors. Lot more in depth stuff to gauging up the Vickers of course but.........

Don’t leave us hanging like that, Peter. Come on….. tell us how to headspace a Vickers. Please!

God......, it was 2x 40 minute lessons...........! And like setting up a No4 bolt, lots of the things are all inter-related! I'll keep it for another day

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

2x 40 minute lessons

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Plus all the hands on under supervision...

I will figure it out. Probably another four or five months before my tax stamp gets approved and I can bring it home. It’s C&R Colt with quite a bit of history. Dolf Goldsmith told the former owner it shows signs of being in a gas attack.

I really don’t want to risk damaging the barrel. .30.06 barrels are very hard to find here and extremely expensive. So I found some very nice new British .303 barrels, a feed block and a couple of locks. The plan is to shoot .303 and eventually 7.62x54R also. I will have to modify a lock and barrel for 54R.

I will post some pictures when I bring it home.