Roger Payne Scope Bracket

Hopefully Roger will respond to this. Can you or anybody that has a Payne No32 scope bracket post a couple pictures. Any distinguishing features? What size are the cap screws? Finish? Thanks Ron (Canada).

Here you go. Sorry, I don't know the size of the cap screws.

Hello Ron. Thanks for yours & sorry if I am a little slow to get back to you; I've been standing an arms fair all day today. Having said that I really couldn't better smleaddict's photographs anyway - they well show you what people get for their money. The cap screws are tapered head 4BA exactly like the originals. When I do a batch of mounts I get enough screws made to complete them all (& thumb screws as well).

Hope this answers your question.

ATB.

And just to add, outstanding quality for the price. Many thanks, DRP!

Awesome. thanks for quick response. Ron (Canada)

Ron,

More pics below of one of Rogers brackets,

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0bbe5658-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5b142e47-1.jpg

I'll add that these are the only new manufacture brackets I'll endeavor to fit. I don't mess with the crap brackets as sold by places like Sarco and Numrich.

I´d be grateful for detailed information as to differences between Roger Payne´s, the original and `crap brackets as sold by places like Sarco and Numrich.´ I purchased a repro bracket some time ago on the German eGun site and had it fitted by a reputable German gunsmith. I can´t see what else it could do other than take the scope and stay on target. Am I missing something? Or is this just one of those self perpetuating myths?

I'm sure the cheap brackets can be fitted and collimated by a reputable gunsmith. However, we haven't got a clue what material, how, or by what method the cheap repros are made in China, India or wherever they come from. We DO know Roger's brackets are made in England exactly to MoD specification, of the exact same material and by the exact same method as the originals. They were so good in fact, that the MoD purchased a number of them for use in the final L42A1 rebuild programs in the 1980's. Like everything else in this life, you get what you pay for.

I´ve not the slightest idea whether the repro brackets were made in China, India or elsewhere. But I can vouch for the fact that mine is made of steel, as are the screws, that it is a perfect fit and that the gunsmith had not the slightest difficulty in collimating the scope on the rifle. Unlike the two different types of `non-gunsmith´ mounts I had previously, the repro bracket has not moved or loosened and holds zero even though I have to remove it whenever I take the rifle to the range. So I take it that the main difference is that Roger Payne´s mount is possibly in some (as yet unknown) way closer to the original. I would still be interested to learn of any difficulties experienced during use of the repro mounts.

Maybe I can add a few words Villiers......... The Payne brackets were formulated after a UK MoD requirement for a further batch of brackets for a reason that I won't go into yet again. The requirement was that they were to be made exactly to the original drawings - even down to the exact material spec. That spec criteria applied to the thumbscrews and the taper-lock cradle screws too. The taper-lock screws weren't in production at the time and being an old fashioned idea pertaining to the telescope, had to be re-tooled up for.

Subsequently a large batch were accepted by the UK MoD. I dare say that India or China or Swahililand could have remanufactured something similar - but they didn't until 25 years afterwards!

It's a bit like getting a new steering rack or thinggy pump for your VW. If you get the VW or original equipment (OE spec), you just KNOW that it is as good as the original that was there when it left the factory. You could get a Chinese aftermarket - or one from India - or Swahililand and it'll work. They'll all need a bit of accurate hand fitting and....... But when you sell the car, try telling the new enthusiast that it's got an Indian steering rack fitted and see what reception you get. Like selling your L42 with an OE spec bracket.

Call me old fashioned and all that but............

Fortunately or unfortunately, the off-shore brackets have a number of cosmetic problems. The casting is distinctly different from the originals in two respects: that beveled lump on the rear "leg" and the fact that the cradle caps are cast separately. Thus the edges do not line up as the originals did, in which the bracket and caps were cast as one piece, drilled and tapped and then the caps cut off, after being numbered to the bracket.

So it would therefore seem to be a matter of exactly replicating the originals rather than any measurable deficiency. In the meantime, I´ve obtained a Canadian mount enabling me to use scopes with differing tube diameters on a picatinny rail. The Canadian manufacturer assures me that attachments are exactly the same as on the original mounts and I found that it´s a perfect fit on the tabs that were spaced for my (cheap Asian etc) repro. It would still be of interest to hear from someone who has experienced problems with the replicas. Personally, I see no reason not to recommend both the Canadian type and the Commonwealth made replica.

Agreed.......... But they ain't original as in 'original equipment'. I'd put a fake drive belt on my lawn mower but not sure I'd put a fake belt drive on my limited edition L42!

Based on nothing more that the Mechanical Engineer in me - and limited experience as an Armourer...............

In fairness they may be rather better now than when they first came out ten years or however long ago it was. I did then hear from a number of people who had bought them & been dissatisfied. Collimation seemed to be the commonest problem IIRC. However, they may well have improved them, & I am truly delighted that Villiers has a decent one & is happy with it.
There are around 600 No4 (T)'s (probably about two thirds restored originals & one third modern assemblies) around the globe that have my mounts on them, & in spite of all of the problems in getting them made, & the not inconsiderable outlay I have to make 'up front', there is still enough demand from people to justify me getting more done. I started the project with Peter's help & advice in the 1980's & there is still a market for them in spite of the cheaper alternatives. When people start telling me they don't want them any more I'll take the hint!;)

ATB

The problems I had with my two cheapo reproduction brackets......

The milling for the lttle positioning pin was machined slightly off to the right, scope cross hair was not level.

Front ring too wide, interfered with fit, scope would not lie properly in the mount.

Steel used for cap screws and knobs was crap soft. Threads would strip if you looked at the wrong.

Stay with DRPs product.

Yep........, I fitted a drive belt like that to my lawn mower at the end of the summer. Fitted a replacement Briggs and Stratton yesterday!