I ran into this M1907 hooked quillon bayonet. Can someone let me know which unit it was used with?
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I ran into this M1907 hooked quillon bayonet. Can someone let me know which unit it was used with?
A SH = Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders
Maybe 39th Foot Dorsetshire Regiment ?
Opinions would be appreciatedAttachment 67449Attachment 67450Attachment 67451Attachment 67452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Promo
The first one thats been struck out looks like DM?........ The Durham Light Infantry.
---------- Post added at 03:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:19 PM ----------
Either 1st or 2nd battalion, am sure if it was 2nd Battalion it would have a 2 on top ......Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
Yes, first one is a struck out D.M. Below is a A.S.H.
So DM is the Durham Light Infantry (what means the M, if D means Durham?), while ASH means Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders?
Promo, some of the initials used on markings were a mixed bag, so DM is the first and last of Durham, LI = is the first two of Liverpool (which was the "The Kings" (Liverpool Regiment ), MAN = Manchester regiment
Although the Durham Light Infantry is more commonly known as, The D.L.I, (also pronounced that way)
SX = first and last of the Sussex Regiment
Sometimes but not always the initials with a (dot .) after each one normally indicated the fist letter of the full word, so S.W.B = South Wales Borderers ( more famous when they were the 2nd Warwickshire )
CH = Cheshire Regiment etc
Normally it would have the battalion, Regiment, company and the weapon number, Volunteer battalions were marked differently usually starting with a V, then the company number and regiment then the battalion.....
Thanks, that helped! Of course these designations must have been strategy, to irritate the enemy .... ;)
What is the current value of such a bayonet? I found big variations in terms of value.
If it was the same condition of the one RCS has I would say around £600 +, but the condition of the blade lets it down, saying that I,ve seen severe rusted and cleaned up quillion bayonets for over £200 but yours is an example that lies between the two, not perfect but not a rusting relic....... I,d guess around £350+, considerable more with a dated scabbard..... but being unit marked a collector may pay a high premium for it, If it was LI marked I,d be sending a PM.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Promo
Don't take my word for it, Its just based on what I,ve seen etc.
On the first post, middle picture, it looks like a partial "3" after the letter "M" and this looks like it's been stamped onto the curved edge, perhaps, causing the stamp to slip. Would this be the 3rd Battalion Durham Light Infantry? Didn't most regiments in the British Army have multiple battalions in WW1?
Sorry to be a tad contrary but the Equipment regulations from 1900 to 1944, when the practice was officially abandoned, clearly states that the Durham Light Infantry marking for equipment. arms and appurtenances was DLI. However, DM was used to indicate Durham School - which is probably why it remained unmodified for so long!
All of these identifiable markings plus zillions more are all detailed in a little booklet, taken straight from the Equipment Regulations, available from Brian at BDL Ltd. If it ain't in there, then it ain't from Britain!
As its a 1910 Bayonet, so pre war plus if its Durham school as Peter points out then I doubt its a battalion. Would say any school or cadet forces were relieved of there equipment at the start of WW1 so I,m guessing this was the change in marking,Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
Regarding the DM I,m only going by notes I received many years ago......... very similar to ones below in the 2 links.
http://www.martinihenry.com/units.htm
http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/brit_bayo.html
I take those sources on board Geoff and others but as we now know and recognise, some of these outside reference sources were slightly - and sometimes seriously, er........, what's the word I'm looking for? Ah, yes...., 'found wanting'. as they didn't have access to the ER's and the like. Mind you, even the restricted intelligence based Quartermasters small-arms and equipment marks booklet had a couple of howlers as I recall (and found out later.....) One I seem to remember was RNG as Royal Nepal Government when it was in fact Rhodesia and Nyasaland Govt. But I suppose in truth it could be both. Anyway....., early to bed for a busy day tomorrow!
Brian....., do you have that Equipment Regs marking booklet available?
You guys in the UK and Europe can also source the little marking disc booklet from John and Sue at DS Solutions. Excellent folks too!
---------- Post added at 11:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 AM ----------
I still have plenty of copies too.
This thread has got me wondering on what is/was the general policy within the British Army of a soldier losing equipment in a battle/warzone such as a bayonet or other items of personal equipment normally carried by a soldier on active service and in action??? I would imagine that it would be quite easy to lose kit in the heat of a battle. Would the soldier have to pay for lost kit out of his own pocket??? I'm guessing that, at the very least, he would have to give some kind of plausible/believable explanation for any lost items.
If he lost it through sheer negligence, wherever he was, then he'd be charged for the item. During operations things are a lot different but it would all depend on the circumstances and the situation. However, on operations the OC has extra authority to write-off called 'Executive powers and authority of write-off' or something like that. That extends to, well....., pretty well everything from a Land-Rover, Truck to a tank
But believe me, wherever you were, losing something deemed 'WOCS*', 'Starred' or 'V&A' loosely designated 'controlled stores' was something that you never ever contemplated unless you were in the middle of your worst nightmare. In fact, just those words together - lost and WOCS' has brought me out in a cold sweat.
* Firearms were always in the highest category of WOCS and a loss would ALWAYS be followed by a searching and VERY detailed Board of Enquiry where the usual legal niceties such as Habeas Corpus, Magna Carta, common law - or even statute law - etc simply don't apply. The only rules that apply are those laid down by the Convening Board of Officers. Ho ho ho....., been on both sides of that!
A WWI trophy? Quite possibly in Germany. Blade looks to have been well sharpened and well used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Promo
Who knows where and when left ... Austrian police in some parts used SMLE rifles after WWII for quite some time. Probably came among those?
I picked it up for the fair price and plan to somewhen put it in a sell/trade, whenever I feel the situation is right.
Of course someone in Germany did remind me about the replica hooked quillons made for the movie Gallipoli...caveat emptor!