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Recently purchased a barrel dated 1/44 Inland carbine that seems correct but has a rebuild mark I can't explain. Below the rear sight on the left side, this rifle has a distinct "3" with nothing else surrounding it. Does anyone know where this marking comes from (government depots or arsenals) or unit rack number, etc.?
arty,
Welcome to the carbine forum.
Do you have any photo's you can post. That would make it easier for guys to comment on it.
Look forward to them and your future participation.
Jim
We'd have to see it. Maybe could tell something from the size and font of the die as to origin. Most likely a foreign mark, not USGI, but that remains to be seen.
Could be a rack number....
I have a couple of stocks that made their way back from Israel, that have various small numerals like that stamped in different locations. I'll try and get some pics up to compare.
Best Regards.....Frank
I was thinking for some reason the mark was on the barrel. Guess I should wear my glasses more often. But I still don't know about that 3 on the stock. because of the shape of the number, I'd have to say it probably is not European in origin - they used a 3 with a flat top.
I appreciate the help so far and look forward to seeing pictures of the Israeli stocks. The stock appears original to the rifle, cartouche correct size for the date, but I don't understand why the barrel has no import marks or no re-build proofs. Wouldn't a rifle used outside the country have import and or re-build marks?
DCM and CMP "re-imports" do not have import marks. Might be a CMP weapon. Most CMP weapons came from Greece, Italy, and Bavaria. I don't think they got any Israeli, though.
My IBM Carbine (imported from Israel) has some very small numbers stamped on the stock, but they are farther back and on the left side of the wrist area. - Bob
These are the numbers I was talking about on the Israeli stock. I don't think your number is the same. The Israeli's usually stamped the serial number on the stock as shown in the first picture. Your carbine has probably passed through so many hands it would be hard to determine where that number was put on the stock and for what purpose.
Best Regards.....Frank
Attachment 68372Attachment 68371
Import marks are not normally placed on stocks as they can be changed to easily. That is why they stamped the barrels and now the receivers with the import makings. Stocks that were used over seas that never went through a rebuild would of course not be stamped. Stocks that were replaced at a unit level anywhere would not have a rebuild stamp on it too. Some CMP carbines and stocks from Greece had not markings on them while most of the carbines and stocks from Italy has the famous FAT stamp on them. The number 3 could have come from just about anywhere or time. But it does look a bit more like a rack number as Jim said.
I don't know the source of the 3 on this stock, but from my experience with seeing the Israeli returned stocks it doesn't quite look like the same font. BTW, I have always believed that the small numbers on the Israeli stocks were armorer's marks when work was done on a certain area of a carbine in this case...just my theory though.
Thank you all for your thoughts. I guess, as Frank mentioned, many carbines have been altered over time and difficult to really know. Although I enjoy learning the history of these rifles and would like it to always be straight forward, these unknown unique characteristics is what makes them interesting. I noticed this carbine was altered with a stamped rear site, M2 mag release and type 5 slide. Interestingly - the operating slide looks like it has an Underwood mark. I know it's off this thread's subject but did armorers use any maker slide when re-building or was this possibly replaced by a previous owner?
Upgrade/repair parts were installed without regard to manufacturer. US small arms were 'standardized' so parts were interchangeable, and tests were performed on batches before leaving the factory. Your carbine wasn't 'altered', which can have a negative connotation - it was upgraded in accordance with the standards of the time. Unfortunately it is practically impossible to determine if a replacement was done by the government in 1950 or by Bubba in 2015.
Here are some photos of the markings on my CAI import IBM Carbine from Israel. The stock is marked S-HB for Std. Products in the slingwell. The numbers to the left of the recoil plate are small and appear to be an upside down 30. - Bob
That has a mix of die types on it. The serial number below the comb of the stock starts with a 'rounded' 3 with negates my comment that the rounded 3 on the OP's stock was not European. So Israel did use different dies to mark stocks. Probably the '3' in question is an armorer's mark from Israel or some other country having M1 Carbines.