Scope Case/Can No8 Mk1 questions and issues

I picked this up couple of weeks ago on a whim. I already had one but the price was right and the paint looked correct rather than the lime green one currently have.

So first off the marking on the case are different then the one I have ( no makers marks,broad arrow) I pulled out my copy of PL book on the No 4 T and could not find any matches in reading the chapter on the scope cases. Which made me wonder if this one of the post war 1950s manufactured Mk1 cases? Also, this case came with a greasy inspector tag that looks like it has a 9/60 inspection date. Any thoughts?

So now the problem. When I try to put the scope and bracket in the case it does not line up. It is not off by much. Just enough to cause a problem. I could force it but did not want to do that. The bracket lines up with no problems in my other case.

Was this a common problem? Any solutions? https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c4110fe9-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...831e6ed6-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8037ca19-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6fe30445-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4b5364b0-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6c30df36-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d471d885-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7a6c33a4-1.jpg

Thanks


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I may be wrong & would welcome the input of others, but there are copies of these scope tins being made by more than one source. Yours looks very much like one of the copies I've seen that come from a French dealer who trades as 'AAS' & who does a wide range of repro accessories & parts for WW1 & WW2 era weapons. He has been having them made for some years now & they have got better. One thing that has always been noticeable about his copies is that the markings on the tin are not of the standard type, & also that certainly on early examples it was pot luck if the scope & bracket lined up with the bosses inside the tin. The thread was also not 1/4" BSF on some of the early examples.

I should point out that I am not suggesting he is trying to pass his off as original.

Hope this helps get the ball rolling.....

I realise that it's not quite like-for-like but there was a later batch of these cases made by Cooke and Perkins (marked C&P) where the left side/front bracket locator was wrongly/insufficiently machined and wouldn't allow the bracket to sit down fully. That meant that the lid wouldn't close down. Easily modified in service by sending down a centralised shell mill cutter.

It looks to me as though these fake/repro tins (let's not mince words here chaps.....) have had the brass insert cast 'to size' and the brass has shrunk while cooling. Incidentally, the nationalk code in that spurious part number indicates Belgium (or is it Germany). Anyway, whatever it is, it doesn't relate to anything to do with small arms!!!!!

Peter,
I probably agree with the cooling theory there. The Chinese guy I highlighted in Taiwan a couple of years back is still churning out these tins, scopes and brackets.
All look good from a distance and I say good luck to those who buy them in the first place, but just be aware they are out there if someone tries to sell you "the real mcKoy".
It is worth hanging around a while for the real thing from a recognised dealer or seller some of which are on this site...............just ask I am sure they will surface!:thup:

The guy is called Shawn Hssu of Waynes Machine Shop Taiwan. Wayne Machine Inc. - we supply gun parts and vehicle parts.
Here are his prices for those interested:

WM0296A ENFIELD 32 TELESCOPE 10 OFF $260 EA
WM0297A CARRYING CASE 10 OFF $85 EA
WM0298A LEATHER COVERS ENFIELD SCOPE 32 10 OFF $15 EA
WM0300A TOOL KEY ENFILED 31 SCOPE 10 OFF $17 EA
WM0302A BASES ENFIELD 32 SCOPE MOUNT 10 OFF $27 EA
WM0188A SCOPE MOUNT ENFIELD 32 SCOPE 10 OFF $49 EA

ALL IN STOCK SURPRISE SURPRISE

Pete,
The locating spigots in those tins are fabricated sheet steel with threaded inserts. The 'tapered inwards' legs on the rear assembly I've only seen on these repro scope tins, never on real ones, at least, as far as I can remember. The chap who runs AAS, I am told, has a Vietnamese wife & extensive contacts over there, & that is where a lot of his repro stuff is made. However, I can't confirm if this is true or not.

Some years ago nobs Dave & I bought a few of his tins as he quoted us a good price, & we tore out the spigot assemblies & replaced them with ones our machinist (the late Graham) had made properly. (We just riveted them in & refinished the tins).They were ok after we'd improved them a bit, as the basic tin pressings aren't that bad IMHO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

The guy is called Shawn Hssu of Waynes Machine Shop Taiwan. Wayne Machine Inc. - we supply gun parts and vehicle parts.
Here are his prices for those interested:

WM0296A ENFIELD 32 TELESCOPE 10 OFF $260 EA
WM0297A CARRYING CASE 10 OFF $85 EA
WM0298A LEATHER COVERS ENFIELD SCOPE 32 10 OFF $15 EA
WM0300A TOOL KEY ENFILED 31 SCOPE 10 OFF $17 EA
WM0302A BASES ENFIELD 32 SCOPE MOUNT 10 OFF $27 EA
WM0188A SCOPE MOUNT ENFIELD 32 SCOPE 10 OFF $49 EA

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Thanks Gil. Now we know where Sarco and Numrich in the US are getting their Lee Enfield scopes and mounts. Quite interesting. Looking through his product list, he is making replacement parts for a large universe of weapons.
http://waynemachine.com.tw/

Only thing I can sayabout the Taiwanese electrical or mechanical engineer, they are a more gifted breed then the Chinese mainland for whatever reason. Fakerism is what they do best, just Youtube Chinese copy of the Rolls Royce you'll see what I mean: Fake Rolls Royce Chinese copy Rolls Royce Phantom with Rolls Royce / Geely adverts - YouTube
so no WW2 scope tin is going to defeat them:nono:

Thanks everyone for the info. I will chalk this one up live and learn experience. I do not have that much into so no risk in losing the house. I just wish it at least worked. It would at least still do it's intended job and have some usefulness.

I am just surprised they went to all the trouble to add rust and the chipped paint for a $200 sale.

While I have your all's attention. Here is the case that I have been using. It appears more legit, but the paint job leaves a lot to be desired.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c08a48bc-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a62c15b3-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...00d56acf-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9a7e627a-1.jpg


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Therno, don't worry too much about the paint job - that's easily rectifiable - & that's most definitely a real tin!

The recent made tins from Taiwan are excellent, out of ten I brought in last year only one of them had a rectified mistake and that was on one of the catches were a hole had been drilled wrong, kept that one myself, the rest were all sold..... I made it quite clear to all the buyers what they were, (easy to tell due to the colour) only thing that was required was to run a tap down the spigots as the threads were full of paint (some I forgot).

Geoff, I suspect your tins were from a different source to those of the French chap. I just noticed, that you can see the point I was trying to make about the rear scope supporting spigot being 'wrong' on therno's repro tin, as his real tin shows how the fabricated variants should look - note in the real tin the 'legs' which attach the spigot to the tin are parallel, but on the repro tin (not so easy to see in the photo...but with the eye of faith.....!) they are tapering inwards as they go down towards their attachment points to the body of the tin itself.

It's a bit of a scope tin nerdy point, but might help someone one day!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

Geoff, I suspect your tins were from a different source to those of the French chap. I just noticed, that you can see the point I was trying to make about the rear scope supporting spigot being 'wrong' on therno's repro tin, as his real tin shows how the fabricated variants should look - note in the real tin the 'legs' which attach the spigot to the tin are parallel, but on the repro tin (not so easy to see in the photo...but with the eye of faith.....!) they are tapering inwards as they go down towards their attachment points to the body of the tin itself.

It's a bit of a scope tin nerdy point, but might help someone one day!

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Yep they are from a different source, the spigots are solid brass not sure on the mounting plate but this is the shape of the later or earlier original tins, in fact I kept two back for myself, the paint also is a mile off, but I,m guessing they matched the inside of a tin regarding paint.

A spray of Bronze green on the outside and they are as good as the originals........

The scope covers are a bit of a let down, I ordered some of these but they are just a stop gap as far as I,m concerned and would advise anyone looking at them not to bother and go for the better quality repro ones.,

I,ve a job lot going on ebay soon just to get rid of them, think I have about 7 of them.

Geoff,
Were they from our man in Taiwan, as his did seem to be of a good quality, but I think Peter's point earlier about the heating techniques were slightly lost on the mans fine tolerances on completion?

Yep, I can vouch for them, had one myself and they are excellent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

The recent made tins from Taiwan are excellent, out of ten I brought in last year only one of them had a rectified mistake and that was on one of the catches were a hole had been drilled wrong, kept that one myself, the rest were all sold..... I made it quite clear to all the buyers what they were, (easy to tell due to the colour) only thing that was required was to run a tap down the spigots as the threads were full of paint (some I forgot).

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Geoff,
Were they from our man in Taiwan, as his did seem to be of a good quality, but I think Peter's point earlier about the heating techniques were slightly lost on the mans fine tolerances on completion?

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Gil, They were from our man in Taiwan, once the holes were tapped out (free of paint) they are fine.

I am going blind to the word TAIWAN apologies for that......new year issue make note to myself.....place Taiwan back on the map:o

Therno, I have a 32 scope tin in exactly the same yuck green paint. Underneath it appears to be a beige brown, and under that is the original bronze green.

I bought a numrich one a few years ago for about £80 and it's pretty good quality - a safe place to store a scope and didn't claim to be anything other than what it was. The AAS ones appear to have had efforts to make them more 'authentic' of late - presumably left out in a field for a bit to induce age rust, or similar... But easy to be fooled into thinking they're the real thing (not that I'm saying that's the intention, at source at least), especially on internet picture evidence... and then if the bleddy scope and bracket won't fit, it's a bit of an issue!