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Currently "rejuvinating" an Eddystone M1917 for use in CMP vintage matches. Rifle is in military configuration (stock, etc.) & was re-barreled at some point with HS 6-44 barrel. Basic stock beddng looks good with no contact in barrel channel with no interference up to muzzle bed. Current muzzle pressure is 1.7-2lb. What is the suggested starting muzzle pressure (or arsenal specified range) for the M1917? Thanks!
We talked of this a while back. Seems your right in the ballpark. I have an unissued Eddystone that comes in right around 2lbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by gc1054
Thanks! I'll leave it as is for now and see how it groups.
Let us know how it groups
I am sure you know that bedding (Devcon/MarineTex etc), rear shims, are a no no on CMP "Game's" rifles.
As issued they say in the rule book.
But one probably could be creative. Sorta like NASCAR.
Hope it hammers!
Get it done in time for Creedmoor East.
Ed
I think the it is a violation per match rules to put specific shims etc to achieve barrel pressure.
I have read its not enforced in a lot of cases but that is my understanding of the rule itself.
Anything suable that achieves that will likely be overlooked but anything overt may be tagged.
I don't know what penalty is other than out of that match.
So what is one supposed to do? Bend the barrel?Quote:
Originally Posted by RC20
Seriously, if a certain pressure range was specified in manufacture, then it would sometimes have been necessary for an armorer or arsenal to make corrections to a rifle that had gone out of spec. By restoring the bedding. How else?
Whatever an armorer would have been permitted to do in the past to keep the rifle in spec cannot be construed as improper alteration of the weapon, except, perhaps, by someone living on a cloud well away from the reality of weapons maintenance and refurbishment.
Here is a more realistic ruling from the world of muzzleloaders (MLAIC):
Rifles such as the P1853 and P1858 (3-band and 2-band) Enfield rifle muskets (as they were termed at the time) were bedded, in the sense that the stock was carefully shaved in the barrel channel to provide a good fit. No doubt the same was done for other types of rifle. If the barrel loosened or the stock warped, the rifle was not thrown away as unserviceable, but judicious scraping and/or insertion of veneer shims was used to restore the bedding. After a century and a half it may be assumed that, as a result of wood shrinkage and warping, many, probably the majority of rifles no longer have the same good fit as when they left the arsenal. So it is considered OK to restore the bedding, using materials that would have been available to an armorer of the time. That means wood, cork or paper shims, animal or casein glue, but no plastics or epoxies. The general aim is to keep to the spirit of the original.
The same ought to apply to the competition you mentioned. Doing what an armorer of the time would have done to keep the rifle within spec, and using the same materials that he would have had available is proper maintenance, not cheating!
Finally got out to the range yesterday afternoon and ran a box of Hornady 168gr AMAX through the Eddystone. Setup on a SR1 target at 100 yds & two sets of 10 shots yielded 96-3x & 95-2x . Was shooting prone off a sandbag with mild but gusty crosswind. Checked muzzle pressure before and after each 10 round set using a Lyman trigger pull meter and noted that the muzzle bearing pressure decreased after each set of shots (went from 2 to less than 1lb). So something is changing the muzzle pressure as the barrel & breech heat during firing. Action screws did not move and were torqued before shooting. Plan to disassemble the rifle and check again for clearances in the barrel channel or evidence of rubs.
Patrick
Just quoting what I believe are the rules in Mil Surplus WWI WWII era shoots sponsored by CMP.
Like a lot of things it makes no sense.
You can shoot a low serial 1903, but you can shoot a recovered drill rifle (of which I have seen pictures of one blown up due to a weld induced crack)
Next report on the Eddystone project. Removed the hand guards and checked for stock/barrel interference along the length of the barrel between the receiver and the forend tip (folded paper test). Found a tight spot under the knox form and removed action from stock & lowered stock surface under knox form with sandpaper such that a folded piece of paper just slides around the barrel when in the stock & screws tight. Re-assembled the rifle into the stock. No interference with folded paper test along length of barrel & muzzle pressure is now sitting at 5.5lbs with action screws torqued. Range test results to follow.
You have a wood-metal "bimetallic strip". The metal is bearing on the wood, and heats up faster. As long as the bearing pressure remains in the useful range, the effect on grouping will be small. BTW, don't forget to support the rifle on your hand on the sandbag, in the position your hand would be if you were using a sling, if you want to get results with the same POI for freehand shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by gc1054
Thanks. I'll post another range report with the results with higher muzzle bearing pressure. Will also re-check the muzzle weight after the 10 shot groups as done previously
How about shortening the rear stock ferrule a little bit to gain a little purchase at the rear of the action? I have an M1917 that responded well as did other firearms that I own. It was suggested by another user of this site and did wonders for me. It seems that there is not alot of purchase on the sides of the action in a shrunken p-14 m17 stock even when you want to eliminate the left/ right rocking with glass. But the rules will not permit that for cmp. The front action screw and applied tension at the actions screws and how it related to the resulting barrel tension at the nose of the stock was an interesting project for me. And frustrating as well. I cant say how many points all that saves me at the end of standing, but i could definitely see it prone with sling tension just like the other fellow said.
[QUOTE=Doco overboard;355983]How about shortening the rear stock ferrule a little bit to gain a little purchase at the rear of the action?
Doco....... Thanks.....when you mention the ferrule are you referring to shortening the rear stock bushing(?)
[QUOTE=gc1054;357103]Quote:
Originally Posted by Doco overboard
---------- Post added at 10:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------
Just a bit to let grab some better tension at the tang to settle out rear portion of reciver sidewalls and lug flat behind front ring