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I know that now may not be the time to bring this up but I didn't expect the below auction result. Assuming legitimate bids, three bidders are sure it's the real deal and three appear to be on the fence. I think it's a $20 Shanghai special but I'm not a real expert. What say the Forum? ChipS
M 1 Carbine Flip Sight Original Saginaw Gear Marked | eBay
I bid on his WRA dummy rounds, but wouldn't have bid on the sight. The pin staking doesn't look like any I've seen. For some reason, the "exposure" of the images is way off and I don't believe shows true coloring. - Bob
Recent auctions for fake flips have been $171, $265, $270. All were for sights costing $150 out of a catalog I'm told.
I say it was Real !
Very much so! :thup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustship
Looks real to me.
Yes real, very light in color [ maybe the camera flash or lighting ] but the color does make you wonder, especially when it's expensive.
i bid it was real--never got a smell
Like I said, I am no expert but there are at least four and maybe five features of this sight that make me believe it is totally bogus, or at least a partially bogus put-together from parts. The most glaring is the thin raised tracks milled under the male dovetail edges and virtually no other visible mill marks on the bottom of the base. I don't think this is giving anything new to the humpers and I won't talk about the other three or four clues I see. Am I imagining things? This is a LOT of money spent on this thing and will possibly affect a trend. JMHO ChipS
Might be a fake auction. This isn't the most expensive flip ever talked about on Milsurps. Two yrs ago there was another dedicated thread of one priced at just over this one. Three-forty something. Which was also high retail. So the precedent was set then. I wouldn't sell my nicest S prime sight for even 400.
The rails look like drag marks. The only thing I see of question without it being in hand is the color. I don't claim to be an expert on anything Carbine other than flip sights. Looks like there's a return policy so it will turn up for sale again if fake.
My impression of the auction was someone was teaching someone else that they can't steam roll a steam roller. Iows, there are buyers who buy the market by out spending others, but this time it didn't work.
The Sight was Half Fake. The L was from the Far East. The Pin looked New. The Housing looks like it could of been real. I hate to Point out where it showed it was Fake, due to the people who do this lurk here to see what the consensus are and will find a way to make it so it would be harder to detect. After showing this to that Collector right away he seen where he told me awhile back what to look for and this sight had it clearly. The 2 or 3 fake sights I had had bought not knowing they were had the same identical markings on this one.
Got pics of the flip leaf you bought? They are coded the same RG-S'G'?Quote:
Originally Posted by imntxs564
I'm sorry. Let me clarify about the markings. I meant the markings that determines that the L is Fake. I will get them and takes pictures of one specific part and try to have them side by side by side. I just need to use this Photo Editor for my Tablet.
I understand what you're saying.
Got home and checked some of my sight leaf pieces, which I already knew what I would find. Have an IP with RP base and RP leaf which is identical in milling to the ebay flip in every way. These two leafs are different from most other ones, but I'm sure my IP leaf is real. And neither this or the ebay one match the High Quality reproductions milling that we see.
EDIT: thought I had a Sag with a Square S with the same overall leaf milling (which would've surprised me), but it's an honest original and is not the same. By milling I'm talking all aspects.
So I've got an IP marked RP/RP just like the ebay one. I'm still just as solid that the ebay one is all real.
This is a fake IP sight. M1 Carbine Parts Type 1 Flip Sight Irwin Pedersen Marked B IP 99 | eBay
IMHO...They both look Fake....To me its just one is better than the other. Just adding my 2 cents.
I'm still learning, so you could be right. Were you able to find the sights for pics?
By all means please keep us in the loop, if there is a tell tale sign to detect real or not leafs I would love to know. I understand your not wanting to go public. I'm totally open to a PM.
Thanks
This sight is 100% USGI . There is no mistaking the font on the base and the flip , the staking on the base or lack of is consistent with this type of base . The drag marks on the bottom are typical of a sight that has been installed on an S'G' carbine . The only thing that stands out is the different finish on flip and base ? Could be the base was buffed out at some point or flip has been changed ? If this sight is a fake ....then we are all in big trouble !!:D
The Sight was Real.
And it's still real .....:madsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustship
The Sight is a Real good Fake. I'm not saying anything bad about the seller. It's well known that the L is darker than the Base, but this is not what showed me it was a Fake. I did see some real ones on this Collectors SG Sights among with many others on his M1 Carbine Collection. I took many pictures of both and I'm making a Collage on my Photo Editor for future references. He has been Collecting for 30 years and has so many Carbines and he had Several Sights in a box he put on a table showed me what to look for. (I ended up buying 4 among with so many parts) I showed him this and he took his sights out and pointed out the differences. There are a couple of other features you can look at and tell this is Fake. When I finish the Collage and if anyone would like to see it email me. Also, I agree with him about any Sight in pictures that is questionable is to have it and hold it and even though you can tell some are real through Pictures lighting and angles can be deceiving.
:banghead: I love these little Icons !Quote:
Originally Posted by imntxs564
I believe it's real.
We need to see a collage of the sights in that box. ;)
What do these sights normally go for when they are known to be genuine? Over $300 seems a lot of money to pay even if it is an original item.
Winning bid: US $338.00
Whether it's a fake or not, it's a LOT of MONEY for a simple flip slight of any kind. Prices like this are bound to cause fakes to show up.
Maybe some collectors see value in this flip sight, but the Value-to-Risk Ratio is not very conducive to making such a purchase, especially if the our Milsurps team of experts can't draw a definitive conclusion.
For me, I'd spend my money on something with less risk attached -- just my view.
What I can't believe is that it started at 9.99 with NO Reserve. Then after that one Big Bid from that one guy it sky rocketed ! If the person that was selling it had bought it for like 125.00 from somewhere awhile back, then decided to sell it why didn't he list it for at least 75.00 for the Opening No Reserve Bid to recover some money he paid for it. He sure took a big Chance. One guy here posted something that was dead on about this Auction on that Sight. Shipping was 2.00 and didn't mention anything about Insurance. If someone else did this and new what it was going to get a lot for it he would have mentioned it would be sent Priority with Insurance. Maybe he did offer that when it sold for 338.00. JMO
You're assuming he was the actual owner. I wouldn't assume that I knew the story. If he's selling someone's stuff he has nothing to lose by risking it selling for cheap.
It's a lot. I'd say $350 is the top retail of an excellent condition rare coded flip sight. Two bidders felt they knew if it's real. But on page one I posted a fake IP sight from ebay that sold for $265. A fake Rockola sight sold for $270 last month. Another fake sight recently sold for $171. Based on the agitated and odd nature of the PMs I'm getting, I have to wonder (not assuming) if I now know who bought at least one of these fakes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaspriter
I think I can assume one thing. If he did sell it for someone else that person should of told him what it's worth and what it's should get. I know I would.
People sell super valuable muscle cars at no reserve at auction. Wayne Carini from Chasing Cars sells other people's cars at auction for no reserve all the time too.
I once got an S'G' flip for nothing on ebay. It's an outstanding example too, but the others I had were not as good and cost a bunch more off the same site. Got it with a group of other parts. That's the beauty of Carbines and collectibles.
That's Great you got that Flip Sight for Nothing on Ebay most people don't. Until you start thinking out of the box and why i'm so adamant about this we will agree to disagree. Will just leave it at that.
Opportunity knocks sometimes. I paid a bunch for another one with light pitting, so it made up for that one.
If we look at the above statement, (whoever it was that might have sent it to me), is there something in that statement insinuating protecting someone who faked the sight that should be taken away from that? This is a site devoted to an honest and wholesome practice of a hobby. I'm sure people expect that if someone has information about a counterfeit item that they would come forward and divulge it instead of protecting it to have it continue.Quote:
You don't even take into consideration that how I know I'm SO sure it's a Fake that maybe you should start thinking out of the Box and wondering why I'm SO sure it is Fake. We will Leave it at that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenOC
If by no other manner, offer the information upon request and through the PM feature. One must be very careful calling another's integrity into question. The PM feature will assure it stays off the public forum. :thup:
As tenOC stated, this is a hobby reliant on the honesty of others and would do well to divulge critical information regarding counterfeit parts of any kind. After all, isn't looking out for one another a good way to give the hobby a solid feel? :cheers:
Thanks, Bill. The person stated in a PM that they wouldn't tell how they knew it was faked, along with throwing insults. This is all childishness, but integrity is what was being thrown away by stating he wouldn't say how he knew it was faked. Is this really about siding with those who are saying the sight is real? I honestly don't believe it's faked and that the person is just trolling for no good reason.
Yes it is Bill...I know what I think of it....and if this character will accept that I know what he thinks of it...like I said earlier we will leave at that I don't need this person to continue to PM me...Leave it alone and as for the Pages of these Sights I was editing to post for people here too look at and have a discussion about it and since he admitted that he can't wait so we can laugh or be malicious I won't post it openly when it's done. I just wanted to contribute something so people here can add or find mistakes to share and apparently its not what he has in mind for it.
---------- Post added at 10:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 PM ----------
This person started the insults can I show them...
---------- Post added at 10:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------
I never took what that person sent me and put it on the forum. I didn't need help
what about Kate Upton???Quote:
Originally Posted by tenOC
Only seen her in that one commercial on horseback. She looks fat to me. :lol: Not that that's a bad thing.
Regarding the S'G' sight, there won't be another one as nice as that come along for years.
The site looks real to me. I have collected carbines for about twenty five years and owned quite a few with original sites. I have also owned at least fifteen sites that I have bought in person not on line. The most I have ever paid was $40, most being in the 5 to 10 range. Mostly out of junk boxes at gun shows. A couple I have traded into. I lived very close to a government arsenal that did carbine rebuilds. Knew some of the old gunsmiths that worked in the program. They ended up with a lot of the removed parts. Point I want to make is none of these original sites by many different makers are the same . They all look different to me .I have also owned several know repo sites. A world of difference. I bought these to put on carbines for re in actors who had no desire for an original site. Just wanted to look like a WW2 carbine. I am glad I am not on the hunt for originals .I still have a few. I am almost sure mine would be called fake by online experts if I put them on gunbroker or ebay. For me collecting has be mostly ruined by the fakers.I had a complete collection of all makers and doubles of some. I sold most of them about three years ago.
I also realize that when the price of theses items soars, that the quality of the fakes goes up. Be care full with your hard earned cash.
Here's a picture showing an S'G' rear sight (on the left) from an eBay auction in Sept. 2012. It had 15 bids, and sold for $406. The S'G' sight (subject of this thread) is shown on the right. I have several pictures of the Sept. 2012 sight, and there are similarities and differences between it and the sight currently being discussed. The L's are from different suppliers, and are noticeably different. I believe I can see a bit more wear on the 2012 where the L makes contact with the spring. The 2012 sight had a B-IP base with circular staking. I'd like to see a picture of another RG-S'G' leaf for comparing the markings. I agree, there are many of them that are not identical. - Bob
Reading this entire thread does make me thankful that I am not chasing one of these items/rifles, I would lose my mind trying to identify original vs fake parts.
Personally I would likely adopt the attitude of looks good? shoots good? is good.
Since the ebay RG-S'G' leaf has the same milling as my RP leaf, can we determine that they're made by the same company/tooling?
Both should have been made by Redfield. - Bob
I see in WBII RP is Redfield Gunsight, which lines up.
I DO think that if claims are made they be backed up with factual information and not "because I say so" type answer or comment.
Fellas, I'm not here to choose sides but I will say this, tenOC, USGI, wtmr and others are highly respected and valuable members here and their opinions are not just opinions, they are opinions that are backed with many years of experience and based on factual, real information. Real information only gained with hands on side by side comparison.
I think we should call it on this thread and move on to the next ;)