New Type 99 - Worth Fixing Up?

Hi everyone. I recently picked up a Type 99 at a local auction after looking for an original one with an intact mum, AA sight, and matching bolt for awhile. I'd either find ones that were missing one of my requirements or when I did find them they were out of my price range ($400+), so when I saw this series 32 with what I think is a chrome barrel that met all of the above with one exception, I decided to gamble on it to the tune of $115.

So why $115? Well I tend to find at auctions you need to watch for guns being dumped because they have issues. This one is no exception.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/aoujyq-1.jpg

The first, obvious issue is the one lip in the mag well is bent/split. The other, less obvious issue, is the follower is completely stuck. It won't budge an inch. Now this gun was actually sold as a"6.5x51" so I'm wondering if there was some misadventure in the past with wrong ammo that possibly lead to this or just a typo in the catalog but that doesn't matter now. Not pictured is the fact the stock was cut down but fortunately no other serious mods were made to the gun like swapped parts (that I can tell) or scope mount holes so that is the second part of this puzzle.

I apologize for not having pictures of the entire gun, I plan to get some tomorrow after cleaning it up further and shooting pictures of my entire collection in one go. What I'm looking to know is if this gun is worth fixing up, or if it's better just hanging onto as it is, just as a conversation piece.

I've done similar rebuilds before - my grandfather had a 98k that had a cut down stock, and 2 years and $200 later I finally got the parts for it to get it somewhat correct again. That gun will never be matching (more to that story) but it had sentimental value that made it worth it so I had little concern about the end value. On the other hand, I have no sentimental value to this rifle, the bluing is only fair at best and I'm figuring on at least $200 to get a new stock, hand guard, and hardware like barrel bands.

If I can fix the issues with the follower and lip in the receiver, is it worth trying to bring it back to original spec, or am I better off just leaving it as-is? Did stuff like stocks, hand guards, and barrel bands get serialized with the rifle like on the 98k, thus impacting the value when they don't match? I realize I won't come out much cheaper if I bought a complete one in the first place, but I figured it's easier to try and find a stock and misc hardware than trying to match a bolt. I do hope this is the right board, as technically this could be considered a restoration, but I'm also looking for general info about it and if it's even worth going that far with it. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by cipherk98

If I can fix the issues with the follower and lip in the receiver,

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That kind of thing is basically sheet metal work. Should not be a great problem.

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Originally Posted by cipherk98

is it worth trying to bring it back to original spec,

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IMHO only if
a) you want to use it as a shooter in a service rifle competition, or
b) it has a personal/sentimental value to you beyond its market value, or
c) you enjoy the challenge.

With $115 in it, you should be able to easily restore it and come out ahead by a long shot. Stocks are pretty common on ebay in the $100 range and the barrel bands might add another $50. 99's with mums are selling for $400+ these days.

Well I love a challenge so I think I'll give it a go. It managed to get the follower out without too much drama, just a wood block and some swift taps. The bent edge I was able to work back fairly closely. It took some work to get it decent but it doesn't look like it will cause feed issues. Got everything together and the only snag is the bolt seems to be catching a bit on one end of the follower. Is it possibly in backwards or perhaps wrong? I've attached a picture at the end of the post along a picture. In having it apart and checking it out it the extractor and firing pin match the bolt which is nice as well. Otherwise, without further ado, here are some pictures.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../20u74sj-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/6f1r9z-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/seyjuu-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/bexctv-1.jpg


And here is one of the follower. The left lip, which face the back of the receiver is where it seems to be rubbing.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../29pdxu0-1.jpg

Cipher, The follower is designed to keep the bolt open after the magazine has been emptyied. (all cartrides have been fired). A stripper clip would then be inserted and the new cartridges pushed into the magazine.. To close the bollt on an empty rifle just push the follower down slightly while moving the bolt forward. Looks like a nice rifle minus the stock. I agree with Aaragorn---It is definately worth a stock and bands replacement. They made so many of these that parts seem to be rather easy to find. Salt flat

So option c) - good for you!

It looks as if there is a weld blob on the bolt end of the follower. Maybe someone wanted to eliminate the hold-open function by removing the step in the follower, and made a bad job of it. Either fill in the space properly, so that the bolt slides freely, or file off the weld blob to restore the hold-open function.

It looks like a great rifle to restore as long as you can get the correct stock for your series rifle. As to the numbering other than the bolt parts and receiver the Japanese did number their bayonets lugs to match the rifle so sadly yours will be a mismatch unless you get lucky and find a correctly numbered bayonet lug. Also shame about the stock. It has a really nice reddish color to it and if it hadn't been chopped up it would've gone for decent money ($400-$600 for an all matching mummed one in my area). Good luck with it and you'll have fun shooting it.

I thought the gun had a factory last shot hold open like my Mauser but wasn't sure so that is good to know that is normal. Unfortunately it is still rubbing on that spot on the magazine follower when using the bolt which I confirmed with a little sharpie mark and working the bolt so that will need work.

I agree the stock is a real shame, it's finished well and despite being two pieces is very well put together to where you can barely tell; the seam appears to be above the sling rather than below it. Otherwise, any suggested books to pick up on these that are like Mauser Military Rifles of the World so I can start trying to learn more about similar examples to try and get it close to original issue beyond more research on this board and the internet?

Look forward to reading and learning more on these. In looking over the rifle I'm really impressed by the design and features so I can't wait to shoot it, though I'll probably pass on trying it out with the stock on it now; my Mauser kicked like a mule with a cut down stock like that and was zero fun.

I took another look at the pictures of your rifle and ran the numbers up in my head to try and restore this one and honestly you have a lot of good reusable parts to put into a more complete rifle. As it sits with the initial investment it's going to cost you at least what you have in the rifle to get a correct stock plus get all the missing metal bits including the cleaning rod and the end result would be a mismatched put together rifle. However you do have a great parts rifle to scavenge off of. Complete bolt assembly $100-$150, aa wings and assembly $70 at least, screws, trigger guard, tang pieces, it all adds up as a valuable source for parts. Complete rifles like you want are going to be in that $400 range and up though you can get lucky and find one for around $300 from time to time. Either way you have stepped deeper into the world of arisaka collecting and hope you have fun with whatever you decide to do with this rifle.

Thanks for the reply, burb. I've certainly considered a few different options. One of which is trying to find a complete series 32 that is missing key stuff like the mum, matching bolt, and AA sights but has the correct stock and other hardware (excluding the cleaning rod as I've never seen one in person) so the gun will at least look right and using that for this gun, and doing something else with that bolt/receiver. Another option that did occur to me is parting out which would be painful given the bolt and components match the receiver but I certainly would not lose money but I don't think I could bring myself to do that though I do need to get it headspaced before buying parts.

Right now I think I'm going to see if I can at least get the correct stock. From looking at pictures online it seems it should have a stock with no drain holes, round cutout behind the bayonet lug instead of a square, no monopod mount, and a three screw bayonet lug which is a transition stock, if I'm reading correctly? There seems to be some conflicting info on if it should have a complete AA sight but I can't imagine someone would just add one onto a hunting rifle like this after the fact and not try to put a new stock on it. The only other oddity I've noticed on this one is the lack of cut outs for hand grips forward of the recoil lug but I'm pretty certain that is due to extremely heavy sanding and plus it was refinished given the recoil lug is coated over.

I am enjoying reading on these, as since they were made for a short time by fewer contractors with seemingly less variant models they are not as overwhelming to try and research as Mauser 98s. As for books pretty I'm sure I'm going to order Military Rifles of Japan first unless Japanese Rifles of World War II happens to have more pictures of the series 32 to study. While the flash obscures it a bit I do believe I am reading it correctly.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../16273ep-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by cipherk98

While the flash obscures it a bit I do believe I am reading it correctly.

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Agreed. It is series 32.

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Originally Posted by cipherk98

There seems to be some conflicting info on if it should have a complete AA sight but I can't imagine someone would just add one onto a hunting rifle like this after the fact and not try to put a new stock on it.

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Your argument is convincing, and Military Rifles of Japanhttps://www.milsurps.com/autolinker/images/link6.gif confirms on P114 that this series had the AA sight wings.

---------- Post added at 09:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:25 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by cipherk98

As for books pretty I'm sure I'm going to order Military Rifles of Japan first unless Japanese Rifles of World War II happens to have more pictures of the series 32 to study.

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Agreed. "Military Rifles of Japan" has configuration details on each series.

Burb1989 is no doubt correct from the purely financial aspect. But you have the functional heart of the rifle (barrel, receiver, bolt) in apparently very good condition and with the enormous plus of a pristine 'mum. To break up a functioning rifle just because of the lack of a bit of wood seems to me almost an act of vandalism.

It's not just about money. If it was, I and other contributors wouldn't be spending hours helping others to get these old relics looking right and working well again. I know it doesn't "pay" - I have refurbished enough old rifles to know that if I placed any value on my time, I would earn more as a baby sitter. But it provides satisfaction far beyond the cost when you are able to take it to the range and shoot it.

You chose option c) from post #2. Stick with it!

Good luck with resto! Beautiful rifle, looking forward to seeing the end result!

On a side note, I love the peep sights on 99's!

Well I've put in my order for Military Rifles of Japan . Can't wait! Will pick this project up when I get the book in my hands and can study this series more, unless I stumble onto something at a can't miss price. Until then I'll just keep an eye out online, plus there are two gun shows on the weekend of the 30th to visit and scout though I don't recall ever seeing Arisaka parts at them, just (increasingly overpriced) rifles but then I never looked for parts unless they were Mauser or M1 Carbine.

Patrick, comparing parting this out to an act of vandalism is perfect and how I would feel which is why I don't see myself doing it. I'm weird about these things and as an example I am leaning towards fixing a beat up, 225k+ miles 4WD Camry I've owned for awhile as they are very hard to find cars that have mostly rusted away, so while it may take plenty of time and money to get it back on the road, I just hate the idea of ripping it apart and junking a very fixable vehicle that has been forgotten by most but are quite coveted by people who know them. Of course the cost of fixing that up could buy a lot of milsurps! :lol:

There used to be guys with Arisaka parts at the Lebanon show. They had complete rifles dirt cheap but in rough shape. Last time I was there, I didn't see them though.

So I've received Fred Honeycutt's book today and have quickly gone over the Series 32 page. This now gives me three other rifles I've found that are series 32 to compare mine to, and I've noticed several subtle changes between them. Of course any you find on the internet are somewhat suspect in terms of authenticity without knowing their history but I feel like this gives me a good basis:

#22740 (Military Rifles of Japan) - White painted serial, mum, and type designation. Dust cover, monopod, drain hole stock.

#45396 (My rifle) - No paint on mum/serial/type. No dust cover. No apparent drain holes in stock, stock sanded and refinished.

#60824 (Gunbroker, currently listed) - White painted serial, mum, type designation. No dust cover (no bolt included with gun), no monopod or mount, no drain holes, w/o square cleaning rod release. Blank/no serial front band.

#988XX (Milsurps.com, posted/owned by under_the_radar in 2014) - Stock possibly sanded, w/o square cleaning rod release & drain holes. No monopod or mount. Dust cover (not known if original). Appears to have white painted serial and mum but not clearly pictured.

Take away here is that my serial number, mum, and designation should be painted white but isn't, as that is a pretty good range of serials and all are like that so it'd be very weird for a random lot in the middle to not be painted in. Not sure why/how it could be removed without totally refinishing the gun, so I'll need to carefully examine the metal for signs it was refinished/reblued. That said there is a fair amount of variation in this model according to the book in regards to drain holes, monopods, and 2 vs 3 screw bands (none of which are perceivable in the pictures of the online examples). In addition there is a fairly large gap between the highest and lowest observed serials with these features, and my rifle falls right into that ambiguous area, though a gun very close to my serial is cited in the book as having a monopod band w/o a monopod. The only thing I can say nearly 100% for sure is that mine does not have drain holes. I will examine the stock closely one more time as the stain made it hard to even perceive where the buttstock was glued together but I did not see any obvious grain differences or anything from the inside of the stock that suggests they were filled.

So I think the best course of action here is to get a two piece transition stock with no drain holes. This will dictate the type of front band won't it? And will it also determine the type of middle barrel band? At this point, it's going to be impossible to get the gun 100% accurate as there is not enough data to dictate with certainty how it was originally configured, though I feel like I can get close enough for what the gun is to be happy with it without spending an arm and a leg.

Edit: Aragorn, thanks for the tip on the Lebanon show. I was at the last two and the one in fall was great (got a case of 500 new rounds of 7.62x54R Tula for $200) but the one a few weeks ago was a real stinker, mostly junk. I also noticed the guys you are referring to were not there. I believe this weekend there is a small show in Lancaster and another bigger one in Gettysburg, I'm hoping to hit both (Gettysburg might be next weekend, need to check). After that there is a sportsman's flea market in Hummelstown the week of the outdoor show but after that, nothing so anything I don't find will be an online order.

Gettysburg is this weekend and I'm planning to go. I need some Martini ammo among other things. I did not know of a small one in Lancaster but I wouldn't go to it anyway. Last small show I went to there was a complete bust with the exception of getting an awesome book on Italian tanks in WWII. But I don't go to gun shows to buy books.

The white paint isn't from Japan, guys just paint them to make it easier to read and it's most likely chalk, not paint.

I almost bought one of the Arisaka and have kind of kicked myself for not doing so. They looked rough but were complete and uncleaned. Thus you have no real idea of what you were getting. The price was dirt cheap. Prices on them now are sky high for the most part, without mums getting what mums got two years ago. Never see mums anymore.

indeed, the white paint is just put there by collectors to make the markings stand out. i do it to all of my arisakas to help me pick out certain series and arsenals much easier when showing them in a display at the York show. the next York, PA show is at the end of February and i think i will be setting up another Japanese firearms display. I also have some type 99 parts for sale.

BE SURE TO KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO DO BEFORE YOU START BUYING PARTS!!!! 99 parts don't swap flawlessly from rifle to rifle even within the same series or arsenal. don't get caught trying to put a nagoya stock on a Toyo Kogyo (modern day Mazda motor corp.) made rifle....it won't work and you will have to hand fit it. that being said, this rifle is going to need some very specific parts to get it restored to close to original condition. it will most certainly cost you more than it will ever be worth to do this. the cleaning rod alone will cost you about $60 for an original, a stock set will be about $150, and the front band will more than likely be mismatched anyway so it will always be mismatched and not worth much. your rear barrel band should be a monopod type without pod. if you want to wait and get a hand on advice, come see me at the York show and i can guide you from there. if you have ever been to the York, PA show and have seen the sniper, British, and Japanese displays....that is me.

Marines55, thank you for the information and advice! I may take a trip to York at the end of the month, not been there yet as the last few times things have come up, plus I didn't get to Gettysburg this month as other stuff needed done. Lancaster's small little show was all I got to as it was close to home; it was nice with mostly muzzleloading/black powder and some milsurp (as expected) though all I bought was some Graf & Sons/Hornaday 7.7mm for it to shoot and reload. There was a Johnson M1941 that would have been a great addition but probably would have been beyond my budget! I was planning to buy the stock first and hardware second unless I got a stock with hardware which would be a plus.

In closely looking over my gun today because I was in the safe there is no evidence it had drain holes in the stock, the grain is consistent in areas where a dowel or plug would have to be to fill them in so I'm pretty set on looking for that style.

At the moment I have my eye on a complete stock with hardware for sale on fleabay. Like mine probably was it has no drain holes, and the seam for the second piece of wood in the buttstock is above the top of the rear sling, which is like how mine is after taking a close look at it. Downside is the middle band is wrong for my serial number range (slotted w/o monopod) so that would need swapped out. Handguard color looks off to me too but could be due to the grain and lighting. This means it could be from about 6 or 7 series other than those by Toyo Kogyo, but if the price is right I might take a chance on it. Any specific proofs in locations I could ask the seller about to know what arsenal possibly made it?

Yes, proof marks on a 99 short rifle will be found on the under side of the butt of the stock. One about 3 inches above the toe, and one about 2 inches down from trigger guard rear tang screw. Hanguards will be marked on the interior with a single or double proof mark. One but if advice is to stay away from sreisel seller on gunbroker. He also sells on eBay

Think I'm going to pass on this stock. With a day to go it's up to $130, and the seller said there is no stamp in the handguard and the ones pictured on the toe are barely legible to me plus they don't know what series it came off of. I was considering going to around $150 on it but since I can't get a good idea of what it is I was just going to let it go since it seems like it will get top dollar.

Japanese Arisaka Type 99 Rifle 7 7 Rifle Stock Complete | eBay

Any further thoughts?

It's a Nagoya made stock from the late 6th to very early 7th series. Finish and proof marks are correct on it

Thanks. That along with the middle band being wrong for my rifle's serial range and price means it'll earn a pass for me.

Original Military Japanese Arisaka Type 99 7 7 Rifle Stock with Hardware | eBay

One picture of a proof here... am I looking for a series mark or manufacturer mark or something else? Wrong middle band again, but I could change that out.

Edit - In browsing other Toyo Kogyo rifles that have sold, that stamp looks wrong.

That was another Nagoya made stock. If you want to come to the show, I can let you handle and look at toyo kogyo rifles so you will know exactly what you need

Will do, I was planning to trek out there, barring snow, anyway. Good thing it was a Nagoya, I kind of thought the stamp looked similar to the last one which is why I waited, so no heart burn someone else got to it especially considering I'd need to swap the middle band anyway

Cipher, I'm going to the York, PA show this weekend and will probably have a Japanese display or a WWII era sniper display on one of my tables. if there is something you want to see in specific, let me know and i can bring it to the show!

Perfect! I am planning on going to the show to look for some odds and ends though probably no guns for me this time around (I say that when I go to auctions too and always come home with something), just picked up an early Lefever hammerless last night.

I'd love to see an example of something comparable to this gun, namely a Toyo Kogyo stocked gun to look over if you have one since I am having a hard time finding good data on the stock proofs. I do have one on eBay that ends next week that I think is correct based on other Toyo Kogyo guns I've looked up online but it has no handguard so I may pass on it.

i have about 12 Toyo Kogyo rifles to choose from so I'm sure i can find one in the same series or something very close to it to bring along to display. i should also be able to have some examples of paratrooper, cavalry, sniper, bayonets, and more on display. bring along your questions and hopefully i can help you out!

just got back from setting up my display and sales table at the show. look for me in the right side hall, all the way in the back near the bathrooms. look for my sign, "Arisakas N More"

Will do! Plan to go to this show without too much in my pocket to keep myself in check so that means I'll see tons of things to buy :lol:

Thanks to Marine55 I picked up a stock for this gun though I've had a lot going on so it took me awhile to get it together.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hpyouwcg-1.jpg

It's about 95% finished. Still need the front band screws on the side and a middle band screw to complete it. I tried to get the gun close based on the data I had and I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. Really looking forward for when it's ready to shoot.

Looks good