If you view at particularly 1:30 onwards you see 2 PARA seizing thousands of Soviet weapons.
It is also interesting to see some of our variety of weapons used at the time:
The Army Stands By (1956) - YouTube
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If you view at particularly 1:30 onwards you see 2 PARA seizing thousands of Soviet weapons.
It is also interesting to see some of our variety of weapons used at the time:
The Army Stands By (1956) - YouTube
I'd say that the amounts of Iraqi weapons captured during Gulf 1 were in excess of this although clearly that was only a small proportion It was a never ending process for the EOD ops to destroy them by burning/explosives. Where's the photos RoyW?
I'll dig them out when I get a chance Pete.
Peter,
Its amazing when you see stock piles of siezed weapons, just what you were up against afterwards.
The Goose Green pile was similar for 2 PARA during the Falklands War. Luckily the Argentinian prisoners were used to pile them up, just before the booby trap meant for 2 PARA killed their own lads. Sad to see them survive the battle and not go home to their loved ones, because some Argentinian Officer thought he would get revenge.:surrender:
Lots of familiar stuff in there. Shows it's not really outdated until it goes into the smelter. We saw lots of stuff WAY older than that in Cyprus in the '70s. WW1 stuff was present...mind you, lots of it still applied in WW2 also.
Did the Suez crisis mark the last larger use of the No4 by regular British formations in combat? I do not seem to recall anything after where the British do not seem to a L1A1 rifles.
Excepting Malaysia, I assume there was use of the No 5 after 1957.
The Numbers 4 and 5 were there until the very end, which I believe was when the L1A1 was brought into to front line units in 54 ish and Australia in 59.
I am sure Peter/Tankie will be able to date the exact entry point for whichever unit;)
I have in front of me a photo of a very young me, c.1968, inspecting a pile of No4 and 5 rifles, captioned on the rear '.... last No4 and 5 rifles being inspected prior to being withdrawn. Malaya 1968, from Signals and RCT (rear echelon troops). Never saw them in the front line after that. There you go, 1968. That year the last Vickers went from nearby Borneo and Aden too
1968. That would match the date of withdrawal of the No 4 from the RAF, I seem to recall the last recruit class to use the No4 was in Feb of 1968 .
I seem to recall the last territorial unit to use the No 4 was in 1966, or so Capt. Laidler indicated some time ago.
Thanks for the information, it does explain why the last year the No 4 was the rifle (SRb) to use in NRA matches was 1968, replaced by the TR category in 1969.
Sorry to differ on this, but I know PARA Battalions received the L1A1 Self Loading Rifle in 1958 after the washup and return from Suez.
Some units got an earlier version believed badged FAL.
It was then adopted at RMAS Sandhurst for all entrants in 1959 by our very own famous WO1 (RSM) Lord, Parachute Regiment, who was seconded there and showed off his prowess for the drill instructors manual of that year. The Guards Depot saw the very first FAL adopted as L1A1's in 1957. I have also been told by those that were there, that after Winston Churshill boshed the EM2 rifle the L1A1 was hurriedly brought into play.
Wasn't some of the small arms captured in the Falklands War by the British, that were any good, retained for possible further use? The Argentines seemed to have quite a few 50 cal M.G.s in the Falklands I seem to recall from the news reports. Were any of these ever put to any further use by the U.K. armed forces or were they worn-out examples which were scrapped?
I believe all captured weapons (small arms) and anti tank/anti aircraft etc were brought back to the UK and dispersed via SASC/Warminster after deactivation in various forms to museums and units for gate guards etc. Peter may know more, but they certainly came back to ensure they weren't recirculated in the future by Argentina.
Here is a photo of Private Roger H of 2 PARA in 1959 holding his L1A1
Here is the burn pit of AK47's and RPGs you were asking about Pete
Kuwait 1991
(Not sure why the photos have landscaped?)
Attachment 69103Attachment 69104
error post, can't get images to work
We did keep some .50 Brownings but while they were generic .50 Brownings, they weren't the same as our quick change barrel versions and cost a lot to modify. We kept the GPMG's and the good ones filtered back into UK service. Some FN's were converted to DP.
Hard to believe it's soooooo long ago now! Mind you, so is Gulf 1 '91!
One of the "SAS Books" that came out after the Gulf Wars mentions that a number of the folding stock F.N. rifles which Argentina had in the Falklands were retained for possible future U.K. use but I have never heard or seen this confirmed.
Peter referred to these very rifles at one point. Perhaps he could refresh that statement for us...?
Also, I seem to recall from news reports at the time a huge selection of different types of small arms used by Argentina and captured by the U.K. in the Falklands; it must have been a nightmare for the Argentine quarter-masters just providing the ammunition. What was the reason for this huge diversity of rifles/pistols etc. The obvious explanation, to me, would be that they were short of small arms and they were just using whatever they could get hold of???
That was the info we received at the time in the after action reports, info gleaned from POWs. And yes, it would be. Some men were captured with just a few rounds in their possession.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
So far as small arms went, the only odd-ball ammo (to us) as I recall was .45. The remainder was the usual 7.62, 9mm and .50. Folding stock FN's wouldn't fit into our order of battle but there was a programme later to convert fixed stock FN's to L60 A1-inert DP spec. S/Sgt Roger xxxx and Danny xxxxxxx were dealing with it and they went to the Marines somewhere and another load went to Brecon for arduous training/selection. The only thing that did seem to cause interchangeability problems were the odd shaped pistol grips that had to be bought-in as a LPO requirement. Obsolescent 5 prong flash eliminators were brazed on too. Mind you on Gulf 1, all the Milan firing posts captured in Kuwait were taken over, refurbished and are/were still in use - but the time expired A/Tk missiles were destroyed by RoyW!
And the odd mine or two Pete
Attachment 69174
That reminds me...... An unwary member of the public could mistake a dustbin lid or manhole cover for such an anti-tank mine if it was half hidden on the beach. Remember that? We say no more!
I know the cop who stood next to it all night Pete, making sure it was safe for ridicule the following morning!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
:thup:
An acquaintance came back from a trip to the Baltc last summer ... in an ambulance. He went looking for amber, and picked up the lookalike remnants of a phosphor bomb. Tons were dumped by the Russians soon after WWII and bits are washed up on the beaches.
Ex1/Ex2 (FAL Canada) and X8E1/X8E2 (Br) FN-FAL trials rifles were ordered from FN in June (Ex1/Ex2) and December (X8E1/X8E2) 1953 respectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Deliveries (from FN) started in early 1954 (IIRC a few Ex1 rifles were recorded as having completed 5,000rds in firing trials in May1954).
The earliest production C1 rifles are dated 1956 (and likely shipped to units early in '57).
The earliest production L1 rifles are dated 1957.
That sounds like a very, very bad experience. To clarify, this person was hunting for fossilized amber and accidentally picked up phosphorus?
If it were submerged under water and then brought to the surface, or buried and then uncovered it would make a for a very terrible injury.
A few years ago an old boy who had been living in London during the Blitz told me about an incident involving what turned out to be an unexploded German Phosphorus bomb. The story goes that following a raid, in the middle of the road, was a large drum which he described as being about the size of a large round letter box or large oil drum which was smouldering and had a small part of an un-deployed parachute protruding from the end. No-one knew what this object was but people started trying to remove the parachute from the end of the drum, perhaps for a souvenir or maybe the ladies wanted the silk to recycle into a dress? Fortunately a local Air Raid warden arrived in the nick of time and stopped them from fully removing the parachute from the end of the drum. He then went on to inform every-one that the drum was in-fact an unexploded Phosphorus bomb which are set off by the full deployment of the parachute. Presumably this type of Phosphorus bomb were used to illuminate the target and so needed to stay in the air as long as possible hence the parachute.
Is any-one able to confirm that this is how the German phosphorus bombs used in WW2 on the U.K. worked, please?
It did! And couldn´t be washed off .....:nono:
Suez, 1956. (with an SU-100 in the background)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-1.jpg
the Jeeps had to be bought back from the scrapyard, as it was belatedly discovered that the Austin Champ wouldn't fit underneath a Hastings transport.
2 PARA overloaded yet again and lost..................thats what happens when you give the map to the officer:lol:
When you see the rad leaning back like that, it shows the chasis taking some strain. They were certainly built to take some stick!
Austin Champs did get to see service in Suez. They came ashore during the later beach landings.
It was one of the few times they operated as Combat Trucks (CT... not GS like the Land rover)
The American 106 recoilless rifle came from the French as the Americans wanted no part in the Action....https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...1&d=1423259357
It would appear Champs were indeed underslung on Hastings aircraft in 58/59;)
Handley Page Hastings - Page 9 - PPRuNe Forums
Gil, I had a look through the posts on the link you provided. Flying a Hastings with all the drag of two underslung Champs must have been an adventure.
Side note: The first Hastings I saw in the flesh was at Singapore in early 1969 on my way through from Saigon to Sydney. The last Hastings I saw in the flesh was parked on the tarmac in Auckland. That had to be late 1970s or early 1980s.
How easy is it to maintain your Champ Skippy? Parts readily available still? Do you have the facility to put the old MoD number on it for show?
My parachute course was scheduled for Hastings aircraft but one crashed (near Abingdon strangely enough.....) with total fatalities so the course was cancelled for a month. Then went ahead on the first RAF Hercules that were ex USAF on loan until the arrival of the main MoD order from Lockheed.
Many of the parts are British standard.... and many parts common across the post war vehicle fleet. Most parts are still available at a price, a bit of lateral thinking can get the price down, I got a B80 distributor ( including 2 condensers and 2 sets of points) for half the price of a B40 distributor..... They are the same !!!!!!!!
The Champ and other post war vehicles were designed to be maintained by REME tradesmen with little technical training, all the main assembly's are easy to remove as lumps.... Getting inside the lumps is where the hard work starts. The rear axle is a particularly weak area of the Champ but can be simply removed as a lump including drive shafts, ( fully independent suspension all round) suspension arms, wheel stubs.
Even the tin work of the body is been reproduced.
Peter,
Yes Little Baldon Parachute Regiment lads on their last jump mixed with a lot of RAF Jump Instructors getting their jumps in.......tragic
Little Baldon air crash - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Well, I'll be blowed......., that's it! I thought it would have been a bit later than that. My course went ahead in 1966..
Back to Skippies Champ...... It helps if the ASM is on side and you're allowed to use the ramps and pit in the main workshop