Arisaka Stock Color Question

Hi everyone.

I'm a new member today and I picked up a beautiful Arisaka 2 weeks ago. I'm really happy with it (especially the wood grain and the stock color) but my only concern is whether the stock color is correct. Whoever had the rifle before me most likely refinished it because the stock is in too good condition.

What I have noticed is that darker yellow and mahogany appear to be the most common stock colors for Type 99 Arisakas. Mine however is a brownish color. Is it possible some Type 99s were manufactured and given dark walnut stained stocks? Id like to post some pictures of it. Can someone show me how to access my downloads so I can post it in the thread

Not all were in that yellowish range. I have a mid war rifle that was given a dark red color as its original finish and I've seen them have both light and dark colors. A brownish color could be a redone finish but it also could be the stock being exposed over time and darkening the already dark stock color. Once you do get some pictures up we'll be able to discern which your rifle would fall under.

Yahoo - login

I uploaded to flickr.

If anyone very knowledgeable about Arisakas can answer my question, please do

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Originally Posted by Mauser1947

Id like to post some pictures of it. Can someone show me how to access my downloads so I can post it in the thread

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A guide to posting photos can be found in the "stickies" at the top of this and other forums. Just two items above your thread!

Speaking purely for myself, I am reluctant to register, i.e. spread my identity, all over the place just to look at photos. Some of us spend quite a bit of time helping others out with identification and advice. It seems fair to me that those seeking advice and help should take the trouble to get their photos uploaded here.

You have the right idea - post the photos in this forum, and then a lot of people will look at them. Your Arisaka may well have the original finish, but we need to see a really good close-up photo that shows the surface structure - i.e. not too dark and not too shiny!

I am registered. Your link just goes to my login page. No link to your photos.

Yes, stock color varies from Arsenal to Arsenal and even between series. Original stock colors are brown, red, orange, and a honey color. Send me your pics to jcatcomb55@aol.com and I can help you with identification and if color/finish is correct

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...zxrm5zeg-1.jpg

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...kqei99ae-1.jpg

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Ok, so I got the photos up. What do you think? Would this stock color be incorrect for a Type 99 Arisaka?

I think that one looks re-finished. It's a matt finish and all I've seen have a varnish/shellack on them. Staining while redoing wouldn't be out of the question. That one doesn't look original...could you get us closer to see? Angles?

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I think that one looks re-finished. It's a matt finish and all I've seen have a varnish/shellack on them. Staining while redoing wouldn't be out of the question. That one doesn't look original...could you get us closer to see? Angles?

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Oh yeah, I know its refinished. My only question is whether the refinishing from these pictures looks correct for a WW2 Type 99 Arisaka. I would try to post more pictures of it but this is all I really have that gives a clear depiction of the rifle. I'm away right now but I'm coming back home Saturday so maybe I'll try to get more pictures to show you.

In person though, the stock has more of a shellac look to it. The first picture looks mat because of the lighting.

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...grdls6hd-1.jpg

I actually have one more picture

I have over 250 T-99 rifles and your color and finish looks very wrong to me .

I don't want to really weigh in on the stock color until better photos are available but that stock has some really nice grain and coloration to it.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I don't want to really weigh in on the stock color until better photos are available but that stock has some really nice grain and coloration to it.

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I know. I love the coloration and grain but if it's the wrong color for the rifle, I might have to just buy a new stock for it

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Originally Posted by bob q

I have over 250 T-99 rifles and your color and finish looks very wrong to me .

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Can you send some pictures of your inventory?

Someone really worked some stain into the wood , that brought out the grain . That is one of the things that just looks wrong . Japanese stocks were a light wood with a heavy stain put on them that covered up the grain . I do not do photos , sorry .

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Originally Posted by bob q

Someone really worked some stain into the wood , that brought out the grain . That is one of the things that just looks wrong . Japanese stocks were a light wood with a heavy stain put on them that covered up the grain . I do not do photos , sorry .

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I've seen stocks with old finishes on them with the grain being visible.

http://img02.deviantart.net/706f/i/2...us-d5m0eg5.jpg

I mean this one looks original

I've looked at loads of woods with Urushi finishes (like on the Arisaka) and they all have noticeable grain details.

The one you posted the photo of does not look anything like yours to me .

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Originally Posted by bob q

The one you posted the photo of does not look anything like yours to me .

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no, I'm giving you a different example of a rifle with the grain being very noticeable.

https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.h...=131&t=1350630

I saw this one as well with a very nice grain which the owner claims to be an original finish stock

As stated, the stock color is wrong for a mid production rifle. To tell you the correct color, post photos of the markings in front of and behind the serial number. I too own many Arisakas, have my own website on them, and have been published in many books about the subject. The stock color is wrong, but the grain has little to do with it

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Originally Posted by Mauser1947

no, I'm giving you a different example of a rifle with the grain being very noticeable.

https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.h...=131&t=1350630

I saw this one as well with a very nice grain which the owner claims to be an original finish stock

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As I said , the grain on YOUR rifle looks different to me than the grain on the OTHER rifles . The grain on your rifle has been artificially enhanced by rubbing / sanding stain into the wood . But if you want it to be original looking , then it is , why did you ask in the first place ?

The thing about wood is it's very hard to cover up the grain. What makes Arisaka stocks so "plain" if you will is the lack of any grain in the wood. Now the color itself of the rifle is fine. Colors vary along the entire spectrum of light tan, through reddish shades to very dark, almost black. I have one of each although the very dark one is a Type 38, not a Type 99. What makes this one "odd" is the extreme grain. The wood is not what is typically used for these rifles. I do notice that the bolt is a late war bolt, plain handle and suspect that by this point they were using whatever wood they could get their hands on. I did run a quick search on Arisaka images on Bing which anyone can do and found two rifles with similar graining. One is significant because it is on the butt stock. Lower half is plain old no grain wood, upper half has the sharp crisp graining like on the fore end of your rifle.

Grain in wood can be emphasized by the direction and placement of the cuts. Some woods are more prominent than others but swirly grains are typical near and around branches, etc. So this is not a typical "cut" for an Arisaka stock but it doen't mean it's not an original stock. It probably is. The finish remains what is in question and I don't think it's possible to determine if it is original based on these few photos.

There is a strong possibility someone did notice the wood and worked to bring it out more than it had been. You should look at the overall condition of the wood, dings, scratches, sharpness of the edges, etc. Lack of dings or scratches and rounded edges are all signs of sanding. Is the metal recessed or is the wood still "large" and sticking out further. Are the barrel bands tight or loose?

Nit-picking here, but the figure of the stock is being discussed not the grain. :surrender:

I don't want to argue about the nits, but that extremely strong contrast in the growth rings is normally only the result of staining, as the rapidly-grown (softer and wider) summer rings have a looser grain structure than the slower-grown winter (harder and narrower) rings and therefore take up more stain.

In other words, as others have pointed out, the stock has been scrubbed and stained.

Staining is pretty much irreversible, unless you want to seriously attack the wood with chemicals, practically bleaching the wood to death. So there's no point in worrying about the original finish - there's none left and you won't get it back. The stock is FUBARed for collectors, so clean it, smooth the surface if necessary, oil it and shoot it.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

The thing about wood is it's very hard to cover up the grain. What makes Arisaka stocks so "plain" if you will is the lack of any grain in the wood. Now the color itself of the rifle is fine. Colors vary along the entire spectrum of light tan, through reddish shades to very dark, almost black. I have one of each although the very dark one is a Type 38, not a Type 99. What makes this one "odd" is the extreme grain. The wood is not what is typically used for these rifles. I do notice that the bolt is a late war bolt, plain handle and suspect that by this point they were using whatever wood they could get their hands on. I did run a quick search on Arisaka images on Bing which anyone can do and found two rifles with similar graining. One is significant because it is on the butt stock. Lower half is plain old no grain wood, upper half has the sharp crisp graining like on the fore end of your rifle.

Grain in wood can be emphasized by the direction and placement of the cuts. Some woods are more prominent than others but swirly grains are typical near and around branches, etc. So this is not a typical "cut" for an Arisaka stock but it doen't mean it's not an original stock. It probably is. The finish remains what is in question and I don't think it's possible to determine if it is original based on these few photos.

There is a strong possibility someone did notice the wood and worked to bring it out more than it had been. You should look at the overall condition of the wood, dings, scratches, sharpness of the edges, etc. Lack of dings or scratches and rounded edges are all signs of sanding. Is the metal recessed or is the wood still "large" and sticking out further. Are the barrel bands tight or loose?

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Well without a doubt it was refinished because there's virtually no dings or marks. In fact, there was a crack in the butt stock and it appears to be filled in with something so I know the stock was refinished.

I know that Type 38s typically had that darker color, but i can't seem to find an Type 99 with a similar brown color to mine (without that reddish tint)

Do you have any pictures of Type 99s with a similar wood stain color to mine that was original?

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Originally Posted by Mauser1947

Do you have any pictures of Type 99s with a similar wood stain color to mine that was original?

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I'm a little confused here. You've been told by a few guys who know what they're talking about and acknowledge your stock has been humped. The Japanese didn't have "Minwax Dark Walnut stain", so no, nobody has pictures of a rifle like yours because it's humped, bubba'ed, not authentic.
It sounds like your hoping against all hope you can pass it off as legit. Must be the city boy in me......:dunno:

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Originally Posted by WarPig1976

I'm a little confused here. You've been told by a few guys who know what they're talking about and acknowledge your stock has been humped. The Japanese didn't have "Minwax Dark Walnut stain", so no, nobody has pictures of a rifle like yours because it's humped, bubba'ed, not authentic.
It sounds like your hoping against all hope you can pass it off as legit. Must be the city boy in me......:dunno:

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i want it to pass off as cosmetically legit because if it doesn't look like how a Type 99 Arisaka should look like, there's no point in me having the rifle. I mean really, is that hard for you to understand?

I did just re-read the whole thread and have drawn two conclusions based on everyone's excellent contributions.

1. As an purist collector rifle, the stock has been re-finished in a non-original manner, and the only practical path to correct this now is to obtain a replacement furniture set. Full Stop.

2. As a shooter rifle, I see a very good rifle that shows well, I quite like the appearance personally, but it is not quite original as the experienced members have explained.

Given those two assessments the real decision comes from what do you wish to do with this rifle?

Still, it is a nice looking rifle overall.

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Originally Posted by Sentryduty

I did just re-read the whole thread and have drawn two conclusions based on everyone's excellent contributions.

1. As an purist collector rifle, the stock has been re-finished in a non-original manner, and the only practical path to correct this now is to obtain a replacement furniture set. Full Stop.

2. As a shooter rifle, I see a very good rifle that shows well, I quite like the appearance personally, but it is not quite original as the experienced members have explained.

Given those two assessments the real decision comes from what do you wish to do with this rifle?

Still, it is a nice looking rifle overall.

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Yeah, while the stock is one of the best looking rifle stocks I've seen, my only 2 options are to either to sell the rifle, or buy a new stock for it.

Maybe i'll come across a nice stock for it and i can buy it, or maybe I can get a good deal and sell the rifle to a store

That seems like a solid plan, a fellow never knows what will turn up from one day to the next in this hobby, but patience does often pay off.

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Originally Posted by Sentryduty

That seems like a solid plan, a fellow never knows what will turn up from one day to the next in this hobby, but patience does often pay off.

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Very true. Thanks for the honest input even though it was a little unfortunate for me lol.

As stated before, there are arisaka stocks that had dark brown finish. These are made by very specific arsenals and only in very specific series. The grain of the wood used in stocks such as the one in the original post also come from two very specific arsenals and in only three to four different series. I have some pics of the wood grain and dark brown finish on rifles in my collection I will post a little later. These dark brown finishes and odd wood grain are not uncommon in mid production type 99short rifles. More to come later

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Originally Posted by Marines55

As stated before, there are arisaka stocks that had dark brown finish. These are made by very specific arsenals and only in very specific series. The grain of the wood used in stocks such as the one in the original post also come from two very specific arsenals and in only three to four different series. I have some pics of the wood grain and dark brown finish on rifles in my collection I will post a little later. These dark brown finishes and odd wood grain are not uncommon in mid production type 99short rifles. More to come later

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awesome, i look forward to seeing them.

this is an example of a late production type 99 short rifle in a rope hole configuration. the grain is not as pronounced as another rifle i will get some pics of tomorrow. but the stock finish is a flat dark brown and is original.

Pictures please

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Originally Posted by Marines55

this is an example of a late production type 99 short rifle in a rope hole configuration. the grain is not as pronounced as another rifle i will get some pics of tomorrow. but the stock finish is a flat dark brown and is original.

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That's interesting.

I don't know if you noticed, but the lower half of my rifle's stock is very similar to your rifle's stain color.

I'm confused why the lower half of my rifle absorbs the stain so differently than the rest of the rifle. I mean, it's the same stain used so how does that work?

I picked out of the dud box at my range some gold. Original 6.5 Jap "Gallery rounds". No head stamp at all. Looks, to the common reloader, that the bullets were put in backwards, but are not. The projectile is sealed w/ a red paint or something. My research from today on Forgotten Weapons is that this 1 of 2 types of rounds made for training Japanese children to fight for the mainland. I found about 25. Thoughts on pricing? I have seen 2 that were sold for 80.00 for the pair. WOW. Did the dud box give me gold??? The bullets are mostly one size, but there are 4 cases that are longer maybe 7.7 Jap Gallery rounds. Can't figure out how to post a picture on this page from my computer pictures.

Different wood.

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Originally Posted by Mauser1947

I'm confused why the lower half of my rifle absorbs the stain so differently than the rest of the rifle. I mean, it's the same stain used so how does that work?

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A cross section of a tree shows the growth rings. Each growth ring while of the same tree produces wood of a different density based on the time of year, nutrients, water, etc that the tree has access too. More dense wood accepts stain less. more porus wood accepts stain more easily.

Most stocks are cut following the grain of the wood because this makes them stronger. knots or cross grain cuts are generally avoided as they can cause weakness, especially knots. Your stock has a lot of cross grain showing in the forend. Doesn't mean it is weak, many civilian arms have those cuts simply because of the look. Not all that common with military arms.

the lower portion of the butt stock will sometimes be a bit different in color than the rest of the stock. this is because the grain of the wood runs in a different direction for the toe splice than it does for the rest of the butt stock. the Japanese made toe splices in the stocks in order to avoid the stock from cracking when slammed to the ground. this type of crack is very common in mosins that had the stock made of one piece of wood.

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Originally Posted by Marines55

the lower portion of the butt stock will sometimes be a bit different in color than the rest of the stock. this is because the grain of the wood runs in a different direction for the toe splice than it does for the rest of the butt stock. the Japanese made toe splices in the stocks in order to avoid the stock from cracking when slammed to the ground. this type of crack is very common in mosins that had the stock made of one piece of wood.

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ok, that's interesting. It does make the stock look nicer with half the stock having the wood grain in a different direction.

Do you have the pictures of the dark stock Type 99?

patience. i work 14 hour shifts and have little time to post pics when i get home. i will have some free time later tonight to do so.

here are some pics of a late 27th series rifle made at the tokyo juke kogyo arsenal under the supervision on Nagoya arsenal. This is one of the darkest stocks i have seen and show up only in the 27th series. The wood grain as shown in the photos also shows up only in this series and two other series (6 and 7).

I was waiting for the original poster to put up more photos of the arsenal and series markings on his rifle to help him verify what he had, but have yet to see them. seeing those markings will not only help to identify what he has but also determine what is correct for his series/arsenal rifle.