Remington M1903a3--Rebuild or Original

Hello!

First off, I want to thank you all for putting in the effort to create a knowledgable resource for military surplus gun owners. I have been reading your posts over the past few months and am impressed at the depth of knowledge your members have.

I am new to gun ownership. I purchased my first gun in December 2015, a Remington M1903a3. I saw it on a gun rack in a local gun store and couldn't resist purchasing it. It had a clean look and something that oozed history. Plus, the rifling appeared to be strong and it looked like a good shooter.

After buying the gun, I spent a lot of time researching M1903a3 gun history, care, details, anything I could find. I wanted to learn about my gun and what the stock cartouches meant, etc. It an exciting hobby!

I am interested in figuring out if my gun is a rebuild or if it is original--in other words, will it have any value beyond being just a shooter. (I will post a lot of pics)

A few things I think I have correctly--correct me if I am wrong:
-serial number and barrel date match-- 11-43
-rifling is strong--no visible pitting in bore
-many, if not all, parts are stamped "R" except for bolt
-Correct stock cartouches are visible
-Has an "RIA EB" rebuild mark on stock, not sure if it was rebuilt or stored though because a lot of parts have "R" on them.

A few things I am concerned about:
-The bolt appears to be parkerized
-receiver and barrel appears to be black (I guess "blued" is the proper term)
-Bolt marked with an "8"
-There is a M1903 follower in the receiver instead of the "A3" follower.
-I think I may have paid too much for this gun, especially if it is not original--I don't plan on selling it soon though.

I am interested in your input, I have attached pics.

Thank you for your time!

Sorry, I should probably show you pictures of the entire gun too!

It's a nice example of a RIA rebuild. As to whether you paid to much only you can decide that but I would expect it to run about $600-$650 assuming a good bore.

You may have one of the "Greek" 1903s sold by CMP in 2002-2006. The four-number stamp on the stock is proof. Somebody might have swapped the bolt. It is one of the better Greek rifles out there. RIA/EB is a inspection or overhaul stamp from Rock Island (1946-58) and probably dates from the earlier period. I see quite a few on those rifles (especially 1903A3s) that were sent to Greece. EB is Elmer Bjerke, chief of small arms inspection.

Thank you for the responses! Given that it is a rebuild, would it be worth investing more in it to purchase correct parts for it--such as a blued bolt and A3 follower--or would I be spending too much on something that will not appreciate that much in value?

Is a Greek rebuild unique? I find it interesting that my gun has a matching barrel and receiver.

If it was as simple as swapping out a barrel band or safety lever, I would say yes, find those parts.

But at the end of the day, you will need far too many parts to make it financially feasible, and you will always be adding parts to a refinished barreled action. My advice? Keep it as a shooter and look for an original.

Ok, I understand. That makes sense since some of the parts can run $20 a piece. I have what appears to be all Remington stamped parts except for the bolt. I'm not sure what the "8" means on the bolt, but I am glad it is 99% marked "R".

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Originally Posted by FireBirdGuy

Thank you for the responses! Given that it is a rebuild, would it be worth investing more in it to purchase correct parts for it--such as a blued bolt and A3 follower--or would I be spending too much on something that will not appreciate that much in value?

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Just a small point, your rifle was factory correct ONCE in its life. Changing parts doesn't make it factory correct and doesn't portray the history of the firearm, as it was issued (which is the state it is in now). I don't know why you Americans are so obsessed with getting the 'right' parts, as it was mainly the American rebuilds that mixed them all up (though this case would be a Greek rebuild).

Just my thoughts on this, as to me this part changing mentality (when nothing is actually broken) you all have is not actually preserving history, rather preserving what you all think the history should be.

As I recall, the "8" was actually an Ordnance "bomb" and the bolt was made for an early M1903A3.

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate your advice. Just before reading seeing your post, I saw an article about M1903A3's being used in the Greek civil war against communists in the late 1940's. Some interesting history right there!

I guess the "8" does look more like a bomb now that I am looking at it.

Based on your analysis I am thinking the rifle is mostly original and Greek. I can see all correct stock markings--they are very feint, but they are there--the FJA, Ordnance Seal, 4 under the trigger guard. I don't think much was replaced with this rifle which makes me happy knowing I purchased a mostly original M1903A3. She is a fun shooter too,

---------- Post added at 12:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 PM ----------

Initially, I was afraid the rifle was a mixmaster of parts which is why i would have liked to place correct parts in it--All the parts are in great shape too. Now that I have learned it is a Greek version and has historical significance/value, I am not very interested in altering it.

The rebuilds and replacement parts are, in my opinion, just part of the rifle's history and there is nothing wrong with it. Just enjoy it as it is.

Very true. Every rifle has its own story which adds to its mystique.

Hey everyone!

Update on the gun.

I was at a gun show recently and ran into an avid M1903 and A3 collector who determined that my rifle is 95% original. The only incorrect piece was the follower--which was designed for an '03, not an A3. I am excited that she is mostly original--must have been stored in a safe place during the war(s).

I had a chance to shoot her as well and the rifling is pristine. I routinely hit 10-inch gongs at 150 yards offhand. It is such a fun gun to shoot. Click here to see me shoot it!

All I can say is who taught you to hold a rifle like that? Seems like all the recoil was directly on the collar bone.

I am self taught but I do not have much meat for the gun to sit in given my "stick-figure" frame. I had a dead shoulder after 120 rounds!

It is not a matter of not much meat (I am tall and skinny) more a matter of it resting on your collar bone (and brusing the crap out of it).

I have noticed a fair bit of people who shoot ARs regularly have the same type of stance, likely due to the rubber butt-plate and soft recoiling round.

I have to say while you have a nice rebuilt 03-A3 it is far from being 95% original. Still it is a nice gun and good shooter

One of the great things about military arms is interchangeability. You have a dozen broken rifles and from those broken rifles you can make half of them serviceable because all the parts fit the same. Any 03 part will fit Any 03 any M1 part will fit all other M1's and the same with the carbine the BAR nd to some extent the Thompson. So in my humble opinion it the part fits and functions properly it's the right part.

---------- Post added at 11:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------

An odd thought. I wonder if seventy years from now there will be a bunch of guys discussing if that M16 is an A1 or an A3 model and are all the parts correct.

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Originally Posted by TDH

wonder if seventy years from now there will be a bunch of guys discussing if that M16 is an A1 or an A3 model and are all the parts correct.

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We do it on this website...already...

No Offence but you need to get into the rifle it appears you are hanging off the end of the butt no wonder your shoulder was knackered, you are pretty much point loading your shoulder with the heel of the butt. There are plenty of books and vids out there for you to learn about correct technique in all aspects of shooting. Like most things it takes practice to let it become second nature, every time the trigger breaks it should be a surprise, rather than anticipating the sear to drop and fire the weapon you know your getting better when the groups start shrinking.

Now just some other advice if you are going to reload like most of us do study the books and develop loads that work in YOUR rifle not a recipe someone else's 03 likes. Avoid the types that expound knowledge but are quick to blame their gear unless it is a glaring failure like the mag dropping out etc. As that type to me just frustrates the heck begeezers outa me as when you watch them shoot their technique is just crap and when you try to assist they say they know how to shoot, fair call but you are still at the bottom of the ladder every week......! Above all treat the weapon with the respect it deserves most of the gear we shoot is 100 years old (My MkIII is a Lithgow 1916 I shoot once a year) keep loads reasonable but not heavy and clean it properly. Enjoy your fun as you seem like a pretty open person that has the same values as all of us here "Appreciation for the rifles we collect and respectful of each other."

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Originally Posted by Eaglelord17

All I can say is who taught you to hold a rifle like that? Seems like all the recoil was directly on the collar bone.

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That is for sure not US Army "in the pocket".
FWIW - I learned the technique with an M14, I'm an old geezer.

What a drag, he put a vid up and he was fired upon. Vid's gone now and he may not come back...

Sorry for the late reply y'all--I have been extremely busy the past 7 months with work. I appreciate all of your contributions to this post. With regards to my shooting form I would love to improve. Some questions/comments I have in particular:

--I have tried getting the rifle butt into the shoulder more but I feel more tension in my body with the new posture.
--What defines a great shooting form?
--Do you use the left arm to put pressure of the butt into the shoulder?

Obviously shooting air rifles and airsoft guns over the years has lead to my improper form :D

Any suggestions welcome,

Thank you!

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Originally Posted by FireBirdGuy

Do you use the left arm to put pressure of the butt into the shoulder?

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The left arm supports and draws the rifle back into the shoulder. Don't over exaggerate the rear pull with the left and an equal with the right. Practice dray firing in a quiet private area when off range. If you have someone close that shoots regularly, perhaps they can coach you...best to use someone that knows coaching though, if possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

No Offence but you need to get into the rifle it appears you are hanging off the end of the butt no wonder your shoulder was knackered, you are pretty much point loading your shoulder with the heel of the butt. There are plenty of books and vids out there for you to learn about correct technique in all aspects of shooting. Like most things it takes practice to let it become second nature, every time the trigger breaks it should be a surprise, rather than anticipating the sear to drop and fire the weapon you know your getting better when the groups start shrinking.

Now just some other advice if you are going to reload like most of us do study the books and develop loads that work in YOUR rifle not a recipe someone else's 03 likes. Avoid the types that expound knowledge but are quick to blame their gear unless it is a glaring failure like the mag dropping out etc. As that type to me just frustrates the heck begeezers outa me as when you watch them shoot their technique is just crap and when you try to assist they say they know how to shoot, fair call but you are still at the bottom of the ladder every week......! Above all treat the weapon with the respect it deserves most of the gear we shoot is 100 years old (My MkIII is a Lithgow 1916 I shoot once a year) keep loads reasonable but not heavy and clean it properly. Enjoy your fun as you seem like a pretty open person that has the same values as all of us here "Appreciation for the rifles we collect and respectful of each other."

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Welcome back FB guy! I think cinders earlier first portion post describes what needs to happen with your form. Also search for service rifle course of fire for different positions to become proficient. Dry firing is very useful too. Plenty of old army training films out there to learn this.
I still play golf terribly because I didn't learn fundamentals properly in the beginning. Same principal here. Good to see a young man collecting and shooting milsurps!

Thank you for the help. I have a real gun weighted air rifle that should mimic shooting the '03. I will give that a try. I guess the best way to go about it is to become a student of the form. Funny enough I play golf a lot more than I shoot!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FireBirdGuy

I am self taught but I do not have much meat for the gun to sit in given my "stick-figure" frame. I had a dead shoulder after 120 rounds!

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120 rounds!! Impressive. Anyone would have a dead shoulder after that many! Ha! I think I usually call it quits with my 1903A3 after half that and always have a nice bruise.

FBguy if you make it to middle Tenn. I think I can help on the shooting form and possibly the golf game as well :thup:

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Originally Posted by TDH

if you make it to middle Tenn. I think I can help on the shooting form

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The way to go, a coach always helps more than guesswork.

Awesome gents! Maybe I will see you all at the range one day. Wouldn't it be nice to see 4 '03s lined up firing squad style? I may have the golf part covered TDH, I am a PGA Professional disguised as a milsurp collector :) . How's your game?

You can still watch the vid on you-tube
FireBirdGuy where is that range you are shooting at?

The range is in NC just next to the SC border. It is difficult enough to find shooting ranges outdoor where I live in the Myrtle Beach area. It is called the Lowcountry Preserve. Nice wide open area with 3 rifle ranges.

Thanks
Just a little too far for me to travel
I'm over in the upstate area