Correct Ammo for Lee-Metford MkII

I recently acquired a Lee Metford MkII dated 1893 through an auction. It appears to have its original serial matching, Metford rifled barrel. The research that I have done suggests that the original cartridge for this example was the BP .303 MkI. I do not reload and have been trying to find an online source for a box or two of this ammo, as I would like to send a couple of rounds down range through the old girl, but have had no success. Would anyone here know of a source for the BP .303?
Also there is a unit mark on the tang of the butt plate that I have had trouble identifying. The unit mark is:

V
-----
7. L L.
13

The first L is twice the size of the second L.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

'Greg

Greg,

The original ammunition for the Lee Metford was a commpressed pellet of black powder that was then put into an unshaped cartridge case which was then finished off.i.e. the shoulders were formed on the case at this late stage.

It's a sad fact that for the last 30 years plus I have never known anybody to come up with a black powder reloading solution to this historical problem.
Unless of course anybody knows different??

I cannot say where you can get BP commercially so you may have to re load the top rt corner of the page gives threads for milsurps try looking at them to get info there.
When you consider the age of the weapon research is a must to ensure A) The rifle is serviceable and B) If you do reload that you do not blow yourself up. There are plenty here who will offer you honest opinions. Good luck.

From memory you could get a half decent group at about 200 yards with a compressed BP charge but at 300 yards it became a nightmare to stay on a figure target.
There were more than a few of us who just gave up!

Anyone tried Pyrodex?

Why not use a slow powder like 2209 (H4350) 215gn RN loaded to about 2,000fps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gpcooke

V
-----
7. L L.
13

The first L is twice the size of the second L

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

'Greg

---

Greg, the V normally stands for Volunteer, 7 is the battalion, as for the LL this would be the regiment and 13 the company or rifle number, don't know what what regiment the LL is unless its L I ? photo would help.

LL = Liverpool College. (Source The Broad Arrow, I Skennerton)

Possibly the reason it survives with a Metford barrel on, school cadet forces would not have been part of government reburbishes.

I think your best bet would be to find someone who reloads BP cartridges and see if he can make you some.

Bertram Brass may know of some one or Co. who may load for obscure obsolete loadings but be prepared to fork out $'s/round for it just a guess, cheaper to research JM2CW

BP isn't really magic, Pyrodex doesn't quite do it for replication. If you try a drop tube, you can probably do a decent job of replication. I wouldn't load a full service charge anyway. Don't go light either, just a bit less than full house. BP is one way to damage a rifle if you don't know anything about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gpcooke

. The research that I have done suggests that the original cartridge for this example was the BP .303 MkI. I do not reload and have been trying to find an online source for a box or two of this ammo, as I would like to send a couple of rounds down range through the old girl, but have had no success. 'Greg

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The Lee Metfords were always intended for smokeless powder with the black powder cartridge just a stop-gap expedient waiting on British chemistry to catch up. The use of "cordite" was found to lead to short lives with metford rifling but Lee Metfords were used extensively with it. If you just want to fire a few rounds through your rifle to try it out I would suggest just buying a small supply of any decent military or commercial .303 and doing it. I have used a lot of Remington-UMC 174 grain, MC (full metal jacket) which you may be able to find. Your wish to use black powder rounds adds a lot of complication.

Ridolpho

Ridolpho, for the Long Lees, try to replicate the Mk II .303 round.
The Mk II .303 had a 215 grain jacketed bullet at a muzzle velocity of 1970 fps (quite similar to the Mk VI bullet (2060 fps)).
I was recommended this powder load which will give 1970 fps muzzle velocity from the Long Lee (barrel length: 30.2 inches): Vihtavuori N140 31.0 gn at a max pressure of 27720 psi, well below the CIP Pmax of 52939 psi, with 99.34% of propellant burnt.
I have used it with good results - the challenge is to find a 215 grain bullet. I use BES bullets, which are hand-swaged; not cheap but very good
email mseller208@aol.com in the UK for details of these, or another source in the USA would be these: Woodleigh Bullets 303 British 7.7mm Japanese (312 Diameter) 215 Grain

Rob

Barrel life using cordite in the metford rifling was 1/6th that of BP loads hence if they were good for 6,000 normally then they were shot out at 1,000

It's really time someone started loading MkVI commercially again.

I'm sure Prvi Partizan could do it, but they probably don't know anything about the round or its significance. I see they're making other odd stuff like 8mm Lebel and 7.65 Argentine so why not MkVI? Same case as MkVII or at least close enough for our purposes?

The 215Gr. is a damn good hunting round too and an open tipped bullet jacket would work just as well as a closed one for non-hunting purposes I assume.

If enough folks ask? office@prvipartizan.com