Question about headspace for 1905 Ross rifle

I have a 1905 Ross sporting rifle in .303 that I got when my grandpa passed away. When I got the rifle it had been sitting in a gun cabinet without a bolt for at least 40 years, but I eventually found one on ebay. Once I got the bolt I asked a couple local gunsmiths if they could check the headspace but nobody had the gauges for it, so I got myself some foster go, no-go gauges. Now when I used them the bolt closed on both so chances are it's out of headspace, but I noticed that the bolt was slightly further back when it closed on the no-go gauge. So I'm wondering, because it's a straight pull, is there anything special that needs to be done when checking the headspace? Any help would be appreciated.

It should close on the .064 GO gauge but that's as far as it goes. The Ross would be headspaced to MoD specification which is .064 GO and .074 NO GO. The same problem exists here in the USA checking Lee Enfield Rifles. The Forster gauges are made to U.S. SAAMI specification and the FIELD gauge is either .070 or .071, (can't remember which), which deems the gauges worthless for checking British and Commonwealth specification rifles.

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

It should close on the .064 GO gauge but that's as far as it goes. The Ross would be headspaced to MoD specification which is .064 GO and .074 NO GO. The same problem exists here in the USA checking Lee Enfield Rifles. The Forster gauges are made to U.S. SAAMI specification and the FIELD gauge is either .070 or .071, (can't remember which), which deems the gauges worthless for checking British and Commonwealth specification rifles.

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Oh ok, so it might not be that far out of headspace because my no-go gauge is only .067. So how should I go about getting the headspace? Is there somewhere I can get the MoD spec no-go gauge? or should I just try adding a shim to my no-go gauge to make it .074 so I can get a rough idea of how far off the headspace is?

Have you asked this question on rossrifleforum?

Forster or Clymer will make you a custom .074 gauge if you call them up. I used to stock MoD spec gauges from Australia but I can't get them anymore. I'd steer clear of the cheap coin gauges.

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

Forster or Clymer will make you a custom .074 gauge if you call them up. I used to stock MoD spec gauges from Australia but I can't get them anymore. I'd steer clear of the cheap coin gauges.

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Ok I'll probably give them a call tomorrow, thanks for the help.

One more thing I'm wondering is, what's the procedure for checking the headspace with a straight pull rifle like this? I know on regular bolt actions it's pretty simple, if the bolt handle doesn't go down all the way then it's not fully closed, but if it does then it is full closed. But with a straight pull do I need to check to see if the bolt head is turned a certain amount or something?

You can try to determine how much the bolt head turns on the NO-GO, relative to the GO Gauge. Even though you can see the bolt head open and close on the 1905 actions, it is still not easy to determine the headspace. To properly check H.S., the cocking piece and firing pin as well as the extractor have to be removed so that just the bolt sleeve and bolt are inserted into battery with the NO-GO Gauge. Even then, a light touch is needed to get a feel for when the bolt is getting snug to the gauge. It is very easy to force the bolt to close and slightly compress the NO-GO Gauge, that is the reason for the light touch! If you use a light touch and the bolt closes completely on the NO-GO, you can still get an idea as to how excessive the H.S. might be by then pushing forward on the back of the bolt body. If the bolt locking lugs move forward during this test, then you have more than .006-.007" H.S.

I decided that since I wouldn't be able to easily fix any Headspace issue anyway, (not having a selection of 1905 Ross bolts to choose from) that I would obtain a small "O" ring, or tiny elastic bands, put these over the rims of each round, then chamber and fire. The "O" ring or elastic would force the rim against the bolt face when chambered and fireform the case to perfect H.S. for the rifle. From then on, you neck size, and reload for that rifle.

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Originally Posted by jakester

You can try to determine how much the bolt head turns on the NO-GO, relative to the GO Gauge. Even though you can see the bolt head open and close on the 1905 actions, it is still not easy to determine the headspace. To properly check H.S., the cocking piece and firing pin as well as the extractor have to be removed so that just the bolt sleeve and bolt are inserted into battery with the NO-GO Gauge. Even then, a light touch is needed to get a feel for when the bolt is getting snug to the gauge. It is very easy to force the bolt to close and slightly compress the NO-GO Gauge, that is the reason for the light touch! If you use a light touch and the bolt closes completely on the NO-GO, you can still get an idea as to how excessive the H.S. might be by then pushing forward on the back of the bolt body. If the bolt locking lugs move forward during this test, then you have more than .006-.007" H.S.

I decided that since I wouldn't be able to easily fix any Headspace issue anyway, (not having a selection of 1905 Ross bolts to choose from) that I would obtain a small "O" ring, or tiny elastic bands, put these over the rims of each round, then chamber and fire. The "O" ring or elastic would force the rim against the bolt face when chambered and fireform the case to perfect H.S. for the rifle. From then on, you neck size, and reload for that rifle.

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Ok I'll try checking it like that, I was always checking with a fully assembled bolt. But if the headspace is bad couldn't a gunsmith just redrill the chamber then thread the barrel in another turn to fix it?

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Originally Posted by beastybaconman

couldn't a gunsmith just redrill the chamber then thread the barrel in another turn to fix it?

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WAAAAAY easier said than done. I doubt you can find a guy to do that.

The 1905 has a very fast barrel thread so cutting it back one thread would result in an unsafe amount of metal in the chamber area. Approximately where the front cartridge is in the picture. It has been done, but unsafe in my view. And as Jim said, good luck finding someone who can replicate the thread. I for one would love to see pictures. Tom

If yours is a "True" 1905 Sporter, and an "E" model at that, then you could likely get the barrel set back one turn without a horrendous amount of work. The "E" model Sporter used the same barrel thread as the 1905 MkII** Target rifle, and was very different from the usual left hand 3 t.p.i. that all the other 1905's used.

Well luckily I don't think I need to worry. I took it out and held the gun at arms length wearing a heavy welding glove, just to be safe, and took a shot. The case looked fine so I shouldered it and took a couple more shots. There was about 0.030" of expansion around the case mouth, about 0.020" just behind the shoulder, and the shoulder itself straightened out a bit, but there wasn't any bulging or white rings near the base. And I've heard that .303 brit cases usually change quite a bit when fired anyway because of the loose tolerance chambers of WWI guns. So I think she's good to go, but is there anything else I should keep an eye out for when I shoot in the future? Also I'm not really sure exactly what model my gun is, I just call it a sporter because it had a factory 3/8" dovetail semi buckhorn kind of rear sight instead of the ladder sight, so is there anywhere I could look to try and identify the model?

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Originally Posted by beastybaconman

I took it out and held the gun at arms length

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That's not really a safe check of headspace...

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Originally Posted by beastybaconman

Also I'm not really sure exactly what model my gun is, I just call it a sporter because it had a factory 3/8" dovetail semi buckhorn kind of rear sight instead of the ladder sight, so is there anywhere I could look to try and identify the model?

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The Ross Rifle Story would have pics or you could show us some pictures and we will help you identify it.

Sounds like you may have a 1905-R Sporter.

Are there any markings in front of the receiver, over the chamber?

Any numbers in front of the receiver, just above the stock line?

---------- Post added at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by jakester

If yours is a "True" 1905 Sporter, and an "E" model at that, then you could likely get the barrel set back one turn without a horrendous amount of work. The "E" model Sporter used the same barrel thread as the 1905 MkII** Target rifle, and was very different from the usual left hand 3 t.p.i. that all the other 1905's used.

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This true for later 1905-Es and 1905-Ms. The 1905-E made before 1910 had the same style of barrel with left hand 3t.p.i. threads as earlier MK IIs.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Originally Posted by beastybaconman
I took it out and held the gun at arms length
That's not really a safe check of headspace...

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I tend to use a lead sled, and 10 feet of string, and a barrier, and an empty gravel pit, for my testing of suspect guns. I've had a questionable firearm blow up in my hands before, a quick recount tells me I've nearly used up all of my 9 lives, so i tend to be a little more safety oriented these days..

I took the stock off and tried taking some pictures, but my camera isn't the best.

1. On the left side of the barrel there's the number 6233 that's just visible above the stock when it's on.

2. Just above that there's a symbol that looks like two crossed flags, with a crown above and IP stamped below

3. Right on top of the barrel it's stamped .303 Ross with a P in a circle underneath

4. On the underside of the barrel there's a number stamped, it looks like either 3181 or 3184

5. Then there's a 57 stamped on the bottom right side of the receiver

Do any of these provide any model information?

It's a factory sporter for sure. A few overall photos would tell us which one definitively

I have never owned a later E type Ross with the 16tpi barrel, so I haven't had one apart or seen the underside of the breech. However, your last picture seems to show the locking screw for the left hand thread 3tpi type action. My picture shows the screw backed out to be more easily seen. The later type E with the slower thread would have no purpose for this locking screw but that doesn't mean a blanking screw wasn't there just to cover the hole because they may have used the same receiver blank to make both versions. If you back out this screw you will know for certain as you can then see the barrel threads. In any case it seems you have worked things out to your own satisfaction. Best. Tom

I took that locking screw out and it looks like I do have the left hand 3 t.p.i. barrel because I could only see the end of one thread when I looked in the hole. I took some pictures of the whole gun, but right now I have a Skinner barrel mount peep sight because I ended up using the original sight on another gun that I sold a couple years ago. The last picture is the original rear sight.

You have a 1905-R factory sporter.

The sight that was on it was correct. It is a standard Winchester sight, so shouldn`t be too tough to replace.

You've got the right ammo by the look of it. Load it yourself?

Serial number looks like 6223, not 6233.

The bolt should close snugly on the .074 gauge. If there is any movement of the bolt possible at all when closed on that gauge, you have excessive headspace. However, it takes a degree of "feel" and skill to determine this, as mentioned above.

You should check the contact on the bolt lugs with layout blue.