Sentryduty's M1 Carbine

So here it is, I managed to find and Non restricted M1 Carbine, these are a hot item in Canada, they appear, and often are sold very, very rapidly.

Like all used firearms purchases there is some good, some bad, and some ugly.

Starting at the top it will suit my interest in having a good shooter, and being a clearly no original gun I can have some fun with it, without destroying a classic.

Overall this is a Inland receiver, with a serial that is 999XXX and in the last 500 built before they rolled over to that 7th digit of production, it features a mix of GI and non-GI parts, and has been rebarreled to Canadian Non restricted specification by fitting a longer barrel which measure 20.5" in this example.

I checked the bore and it is mirror bright, making it hard to visually pick up the riflings. I slugged it from the muzzle, due to the receiver design, with a lubricated tapered lead fishing weight and it came out as 4 groove, right hand twist, very slow rate, which I will check later. Measurements of .3005" bore and a groove depth of of .3045" which suggests a shallow rifling of only 0.002" However I am not sure how deep factory rifling would normally be on a standard GI barrel.

The bore is not a 2-groove so that relives one of my main concerns, and I will have to see how it performs under range conditions before assessing further judgement.

The bad.

The upper hand guard is clearly not correct, it is a stamped piece from a Civilian produced Iver Johnson etc. that will get changed at some point. I cannot verify if the folding paratrooper stock is genuine, only has a serial marking in the channel, unless an expert here can tell me otherwise I will have to conclude it is a reproduction.

The ugly, that stock is cracked, a lot.

It has been poorly repaired before, I will consider another repair or I may just fit a conventional Carbine stock as a replacement, I know about this from the time of purchase and it doesn't bother me much. I was genuinely concerned that I have had a busted GI M1A1 stock, but after looking for markings I am not really concerned that it is the case.

I have gone over the M1Carbine.Inc (and partner sites) to work on identifying parts and see I have, so far I am pleased with the foundation of what can be made into a good, or better little carbine.

Thoughts from the audience?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...732689a3-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...883d48fd-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1adcf364-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...47cfc1b2-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...66c28718-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1cf193cc-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...afc69fc2-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...374ca0d4-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2d6958ef-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...def48c71-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bf2b15d9-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ba8e3ce6-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0091a94e-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2b4906a3-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...628f6ada-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4328bfde-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aabf9923-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6aae42a3-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...990e2d86-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c12c6c8b-1.jpg

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I had one of those stocks too, fit, finish and function was all fine. Mine was Italian...

Gorilla glue, errr.....

You know looking at it the longer barrel isn't bad at all. Longer sight radius is always a good thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarPig1976

Gorilla glue, errr.....

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My thoughts exactly, the glue is still elastic and probably a good reason why it didn't hold for the previous repairer.

The rifling isn't very deep even when new. A friend of mine was worried about his barrel being shot out back in the '70s when we'd go to Vancouver and buy every configuration you could name for about $125 each... I told him not to worry then and I say the same to you now. Try it and you'll find it's fine. Yes, the stock could use a replacement, and then that one will sell well on CGN...for sure. Cracks and everything...

Having messed around with these a fair bit over the years, what I see looks just fine as far the metal work is concerned. You have a typical post war mix and match refurb that looks to be in good condition with just finish wear.

Yours is equipped with the milled adjustable rear sight and late production barrel band with bayonet lug. Both of these are best for a "Shooter Carbine".

The only major issue is that stock. Its structural integrity has been compromised to the point where all the glue and pins in the world won't save it. For a decent shooter, the stock needs to be solid and free of cracks from the recoil lug forward to the barrel band saddle. If it shoots really well with that stock, then take it as a sign and buy a lottery ticket...

Stocks are hard to come by, but I think I may have a temporary solution until you can find a GI stock. I know a guy with a stock duplicator, and he produces a semi finished product that shouldn't take too much work to finish. I'm in Edmonton myself, so Just shoot me a PM, and I could include my email address etc. and we could go from there.

I have 999760


QUOTE=Sentryduty;356389]So here it is, I managed to find and Non restricted M1 Carbine, these are a hot item in Canada, they appear, and often are sold very, very rapidly.

Like all used firearms purchases there is some good, some bad, and some ugly.

Starting at the top it will suit my interest in having a good shooter, and being a clearly no original gun I can have some fun with it, without destroying a classic.

Overall this is a Inland receiver, with a serial that is 999XXX and in the last 500 built before they rolled over to that 7th digit of production, it features a mix of GI and non-GI parts, and has been rebarreled to Canadian Non restricted specification by fitting a longer barrel which measure 20.5" in this example.

I checked the bore and it is mirror bright, making it hard to visually pick up the riflings. I slugged it from the muzzle, due to the receiver design, with a lubricated tapered lead fishing weight and it came out as 4 groove, right hand twist, very slow rate, which I will check later. Measurements of .3005" bore and a groove depth of of .3045" which suggests a shallow rifling of only 0.002" However I am not sure how deep factory rifling would normally be on a standard GI barrel.

The bore is not a 2-groove so that relives one of my main concerns, and I will have to see how it performs under range conditions before assessing further judgement.

The bad.

The upper hand guard is clearly not correct, it is a stamped piece from a Civilian produced Iver Johnson etc. that will get changed at some point. I cannot verify if the folding paratrooper stock is genuine, only has a serial marking in the channel, unless an expert here can tell me otherwise I will have to conclude it is a reproduction.

The ugly, that stock is cracked, a lot.

It has been poorly repaired before, I will consider another repair or I may just fit a conventional Carbine stock as a replacement, I know about this from the time of purchase and it doesn't bother me much. I was genuinely concerned that I have had a busted GI M1A1 stock, but after looking for markings I am not really concerned that it is the case.

I have gone over the M1Carbine.Inc (and partner sites) to work on identifying parts and see I have, so far I am pleased with the foundation of what can be made into a good, or better little carbine.

Thoughts from the audience?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...732689a3-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...883d48fd-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1adcf364-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...47cfc1b2-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...66c28718-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1cf193cc-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...afc69fc2-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...374ca0d4-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2d6958ef-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...def48c71-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bf2b15d9-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ba8e3ce6-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0091a94e-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2b4906a3-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...628f6ada-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4328bfde-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aabf9923-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6aae42a3-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...990e2d86-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...c12c6c8b-1.jpg

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jakester

Stocks are hard to come by, but I think I may have a temporary solution until you can find a GI stock.

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I spent some time looking at the very same question last evening and planned to ask for suggestions. Also note, I have no real interest in keeping with a side folder, unless there is some evidence that this carbine rolled out of the factory as a M1A1. Folding stocks in my experience, are useful for storage/portability, look very cool, but are not very good for shooting ergonomics and accuracy.

If I needed a stock today here are my options, everyone feel free to weigh in on each or suggest alternatives:

Ebay: There are a few relic condition stocks GI stocks without hardware on ebay with sellers that will ship to Canada, but they are about $25-50 CDN but have cracks/chips and are a hard luck lot.

Numrich: Their policy seems to allow shipment of these items, and they have new-repro stocks at the $150 USD price point, but does anyone have experience with these, are they good?

Numrich 2: They have ex-Italian issue stocks cheaper price point than the new-repros.

Numrich 3: They have a paratrooper repro stock, probably the exact same one I have now, slightly more money than the basic M1 repro.

Chiappa: Their Beech M1-22 carbine stocks are nice enough, I would prefer a GI walnut though, apparently they are interchangeable with the USGI guns. I have one I could test fit, and if it worked, I could order one as a replacement then, ditch the plastic recoil plate and metric hardware.

Thoughts from the audience?

---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 AM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

A friend of mine was worried about his barrel being shot out back in the '70s

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That is a good data point, I will have to fling some rounds and if they don't keyhole, all should be good.

---------- Post added at 08:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wtmr

I have 999760

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We are surprisingly close in production numbers.

My view on Internet shopping for stocks is...if you can't inspect one visually, (which means lots of detailed pics) then go with a repro of an original, or a new Commercial Stock.

That said, from Numrich's current list of M1 Carbine stocks, I'd likely go with:

955750 U.S. MILITARY M1 CARBINE Standard Stock Set $127.30

or:

931340B U.S. MILITARY M1 CARBINE Stock, Hardwood, Like New Condition. Accepts G.I. Parts. $45.65

The second option doesn't come with a wooden handguard, you'd have to purchase that separately, or use the Perforated metal handguard that came with your Carbine.

Of all the carbine stocks listed on their site, the first option appears the best choice to me (for a Shooter Carbine) unless you want to go low budget, then I would go with the second choice and use your own handguard.

In either case, you'd need a G.I. buttplate and attaching screw and recoil lug with screw and escutcheon. The barrel band retention spring can be cannibalized from your leftover para stock.

I have obtained a replacement stock and a few spare magazines, everything fits up very nicely, this evening I will stage it for some photos to share.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sentryduty

My thoughts exactly, the glue is still elastic and probably a good reason why it didn't hold for the previous repairer.

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Sentry....To get Gorilla Glue to harden you need to some water....When I repaired Stock it did the same thing so i dampened a Hand towel then squeezed water all over it and then over night it was hard as a Rock. The water reacts to it then it hardens like Rock, but you probably know , it just thought I'd let you know cause it happened to my stock. NICE CARBINE !!!

Frank

Here it is with the new stock and magazines.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...cdd9da84-1.jpg

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sentryduty

Here it is with the new stock and magazines.

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Sentry....That is a very nice Looking Carbine !!!

Frank

Thank you Frank, it was the pitched discussion from the Feb. Amercian Rifleman thread that actually made me take the jump into finding one. I had first experienced M1 Carbines in a second or even 3rd hand manner, my father remarked about a hunting friend having one and it was fantastic for Coyote hunting, light handy, and excellent for that sort of pest control. He and the other fellows typically lugging a longer clumsy single shot 12 guage trying to do the same work.

The next exposure came from when I took my firearms safety courses in pursuit of my civilian firearms permits, the course requires one of the various types of gun "action" to be made available for class training. Hinge/break, bolt, pump, lever, and semi-automatic, the other actions were typical sporting guns but the semi-auto was represented by this short, lightweight, USGI M1 Carbine. I was already a young soldier by this point and was quite familiar with the C7A1 rifles and understood the praise my father had for the M1 carbine as a handy gun, it was just a featherweight even compared to a modern military AR platform.

Nearly 20 years later I have finally gotten around to getting and in a few weeks, shooting one, they are not rare in Canada, but I have never seen one at a range or other shooting venue.

Nice looking M1 Carbine! They're just great, fun fire arms. Something about the sound of the action and feel of using one that makes it a lot more interesting to me than my SKS, though ammo supply means I shoot the SKS more. Also really easy to control and keep on target. Enjoy it!

Can you post a good picture of the serial number? I believe it is the highest serial number reported within the serial number block. The next highest is 999760.

I am 999762 Inland Mfg.

---------- Post added at 04:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------

I'm not sitting on some remarkable find here am I?

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I'm not sitting on some remarkable find here am I?

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Only if you're interested in the minutiae of carbines. If it was an original, as manufactured, maybe.

It is most certainly not as original, but the number is as noted.

Interesting thing to discover anyway.

Interesting in that it's near the end of the first serial block of Inland production, it ends at 999999. Conversely, mine is near the beginning of this block 239XXX.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jakester

Interesting in that it's near the end of the first serial block of Inland production, it ends at 999999. Conversely, mine is near the beginning of this block 239XXX.

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Your number is about a quarter of the way through the first block not near the beginning. If I remember correctly, 11 starts the block.

I was able to get out for a short range session at the sand pit, the Carbine ran very well and was a fun experience. At the same time I used the easy shooting carbine to train a new shooter with good results. We were plinking at soda cans, at ranges of 25m-100m and connecting with the carbine didn't take much effort at all. I plan to take the opportunity to print the gun on paper, but I was happy it cycled without issue and inspection of the spent brass showed no signs of chamber or headspace problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sentryduty

Thank you Frank, it was the pitched discussion from the Feb. Amercian Rifleman thread that actually made me take the jump into finding one. I had first experienced M1 Carbines in a second or even 3rd hand manner, my father remarked about a hunting friend having one and it was fantastic for Coyote hunting, light handy, and excellent for that sort of pest control. He and the other fellows typically lugging a longer clumsy single shot 12 guage trying to do the same work.

The next exposure came from when I took my firearms safety courses in pursuit of my civilian firearms permits, the course requires one of the various types of gun "action" to be made available for class training. Hinge/break, bolt, pump, lever, and semi-automatic, the other actions were typical sporting guns but the semi-auto was represented by this short, lightweight, USGI M1 Carbine. I was already a young soldier by this point and was quite familiar with the C7A1 rifles and understood the praise my father had for the M1 carbine as a handy gun, it was just a featherweight even compared to a modern military AR platform.

Nearly 20 years later I have finally gotten around to getting and in a few weeks, shooting one, they are not rare in Canada, but I have never seen one at a range or other shooting venue.

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Good for you! Now, take it out and see if you can hunt deer with it at 100 meters with Hornady FXT 110 grain Soft Point ammunition. If it is legal in your province to use the "light rifle" place that 110 grain pill right behind the shoulder of the little deer. (If he's calm, you can watch him drop like a sack of rocks).

Enjoy!

sentry nice carbine.

Captain o To use a m1 carbine for hunting in Canada it needs a barrel 18 1/2'' or longer with no extension . Our great Canadian laws.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fqegfw0z-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gunsdora

sentry nice carbine.

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Thanks, that IR version looks the part very well.

Are your batteries live? I always wondered how good the Gen 1 nightvision gear compared to the Gen 3 stuff I used.

A lot of the power packs were converted in the 80's to use a 6 volt motorcycle battery & this one was conv. so no acid like the old battery's. I did play with it in the day time got green light but needs adjusting at night ???. Some day will play with it. A little different then what they use today & not as heavy :D

Back to the original carbine....I like it a lot better without that repop M1A1 stock. You've got a nice little carbine there. I see a lot of upper end collectors on this thread. I think any of us would be happy to have it. What do you think Newscotlander? Wtmr? Jim? OK< who did I leave out besides myself???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimb16

You've got a nice little carbine there.

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Thank you Jim,

There were a lot of tempting options out there, commercial guns like the modern Auto-ord, and the older Universals are very common, but I am glad I was able to hold out for a USGI one. The path to getting was kind of touch and go for a point, but it all worked out in the end. I agree about that repro-M1A1, the wood was flat, and had no depth to it, and shooting off a wire stock is not as nice as a proper one.