'44 Winchester

My '44 Winchester arrived last Night. I put it around 3 to 4-'44 to middle of '44 I just need to do some more checking. I would like to get the correct month. It looks to be all Winchester except for it's Inland Stock and Rockola Handguard and it's T3 Sear. It's in the 5.65 mil Range. I need to brush up a bit more on Winchester. I hope there are some answers in my books I need to understand more about it. NO IMPORT MARKINGS anywhere on this Carbine. 825.00 ----> 850.00 with Shipping Cost. It's was already Registered here in Texas from a State Trooper who lived outside of Dallas and it was sent straight to my Home. The DPS owner who has his FFL told me he could send this one to my home, but the other 2 he has For Sale needs to go to a FFL holder and One of things I don't understand is why did they put the S/N in Front of the Rear Sight also...you can Clearly see it with the one that's on it Now. There are NO GRIND marks anywhere on Barrel or by Receiver. It puzzling. I think either the previous owner or when he got it remove the BB and Rear Sight. I though Win. used a Flip Sight or a H in a Shield in this Range. I did see its right where they started to change then out to milled or stamped Sights. Who knows...Maybe someone will chime in and give me some clues if this is they way it should be in this range ? I do have a Winchester Stock and Handguard so I will probably use it for this Carbine.

Frank

Frank, we would most likely know whether it came with a flip or adjustable if you'd take some closeup pictures of the rear sight from the top. The staking used could reveal what the original sight was. I do believe the front sight has been changed out and if the serial has been stamped in front of the rear sight, that will will hurt its value just a bit, but since you paid 825 you did fine with it. I have some issues the safety markings, but others can chime in there. BTW, does it have a bayonet lug on it? Going by the wear points below the W on the barrel it seems possible, but again, given the price you paid it hardly matters.

Yes...It has Type 3 BB with Lug....

Is the rear sight a H in shield marked? I don't see any evidence it had a flip sight on it, but I could be missing something. There was an ordnance directive to stamp the serial number forward of the rear sight if the rear sight blocked the view of the serial. Seemingly, that order was ignored in lots of cases judging by the number of times it's seen that way.

In this serial number range you could find a flip sight or adjustable .Your rear sight looks to be original to the rifle , Winchester also used JAQ and IRCO rear sights along with H in shield . The type 3 barrel band also was showing up in this serial number range . Looks like a nice rifle .. How is the barrel band marked ?

Sight marking shows in picture #15 (J.A.O.). Nice carbine Frank! What stock does it have? (Inland) - Bob

Looks like your on a roll, did you buy the 42 Winchester too ? Nice pick up, hard to go wrong at that price.

The Rear Sight is Marked J.A.O. with part #7160060. The T3 BB with Lug is Marked M M Q. Here are the pictures. I thought the Rear Sight was JAQ, but it looks to be J.A.O. I can't tell so I had to make bigger Pics and Clearer to see exactly what it says. Thanks for the help. I did see in the books that Winchester used The H in a Shield, but does say they also used J.A.O. with Number along with IRCo with number which ever they had sent to them and in Stock at the time of having to use them. I do have a H in a Shield Rear Sight in one of my Parts Bin.

Frank

I have 5629287 it is thought to be an original piece right down to the AU recoil plate. It was made in march of 1944. They were using both type3s and flip sights at that time. I would say that the rear sight on yours is original to the weapon. The staking on the front sight is not what would be expected from Winchester, I also would not expect a type 3 band on this gun a type 2 would be correct.

I'm going by the Front Sight...If you have the Carbine in your hands and you can look at it real close. This Front Sight Looks like it has never been off this Carbine. I searched every inch of the Barrel and Receiver not one Scratch, grind or anything to show there was a import mark and was taken off. I think this Carbine was built this way. I like the Carbine and the deal was even better. All anyone can do is speculate. The DPS Trooper that sod it to me he has 7 others listed of a variety of WW2 Rifles and a couple more Carbines. They ALL look to be in really great shape. He did well Collecting all these years and is retiring, but is selling of his collection before he leaves the State Agency.

Frank, it looks like the front sight has some letters on top perhaps. If that happens to be true, then it's been changed out. Again, it does not matter given what you paid for it.

What type of Front Sight is it anyway. I will look for my LED light and see what I can see ? Thanks

I think the second serial number needs more explaining. The adjustable sight overhang covered up serial numbers on some carbines, so it was approved that they could also stamp them on the front of the sight bridge. It didn't take long for the manufacturers to adjust their stamping to move the maker ID and SN farther back so they no longer had to double-stamp. I find it very interesting because the double stamp is fairly rare. I do not believe it adversely affects the value. That's a nice Winchester!

Thanks Inland44....I been sending out pictures to some collectors and a few more people that I know that own several of these and do know it was because the placement of the Sight covered the S/N. Why would they do that to this one when you can Clearly see it with the Rear Sight it has on it. It tells me this Sight came on this Carbine, but what kept them still marking the front side when they made the adjustments to show the S/N with the original milled or stamped Sight and then new placement of S/N for it to be seen. Who knows....I wish I did.


Frank

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Originally Posted by INLAND44

It didn't take long for the manufacturers to adjust their stamping to move the maker ID and SN farther back so they no longer had to double-stamp.

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The carbine manufacturers didn't stamp serial numbers in front of the rear sight. That was done during rebuilds.

Brian....Where would you look for a rebuild Mark. There's nothing on this Carbine that shows it went through a rebuild. Not even a Import stamp anywhere. I've searched every area closely for anything to grind or sand marks to black oxide to reblue to cover anything. If this is what your not talking about then I'm sorry. I'm just trying to understand. Thank You

Frank

Yes frank to Deldriver's point on the front sight, it looks like a 7 or a 2 or maybe a z to the right of the blade ?? Also in one of your pictures looking straight down at the front of the receiver and to the right, I think I see the heads of brass pins. If so this could confirm a re-arsenal :confused:

Everything a side you got a great gun at a steal. :)

The serial number in front of the rear sight shows it went through a U.S. rebuild facility. The type 3 band is also an indication the carbine is not as it left the manufacturer's facility, as is the non WRA front sight, the White Sewing hammer, and the J.A.O. flip safety. The safety depicted in the first picture of the third row is a repro.

I put that Flip Safety on. The push one it had was too tight to push side to side. I took the Spring out of the Iver Johnson and put that Spring in back with the Push Safety, it's in the pictures. The Stock that's in the picture is a Inland Stock, but I didn't put it in the Winchester one he gave me until I found the Winchester Handguard which I did and now it's all Winchester.

Last Serial Number Applied Each Day At Winchester from Winchester Log Book:
26 Mar 1944: 5,652,677
28 Mar 1944: 5,653,633
30 Mar 1944: 5,654,690

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Originally Posted by F4Rio

Last Serial Number Applied Each Day At Winchester from Winchester Log Book:
26 Mar 1944: 5,652,677
28 Mar 1944: 5,653,633
30 Mar 1944: 5,654,690

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Now I know it's Feb or early March.... I don't have the book in front of me, but I have a idea now. Thanks F4Rio

Your serial number looks to be 5653--- which puts it in the 28 March batch of numbers.

The OP's carbine definetly went through rebuild and it looks like a previous owner tried to correct it by adding some W coded parts. Enjoy it for what it is.

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Originally Posted by John Wyatt

The OP's carbine definetly went through rebuild and it looks like a previous owner tried to correct it by adding some W coded parts. Enjoy it for what it is.

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I sure will...A very Nice Deal...Very Nice Carbine to go along with that Bavarin RockOla I bought just a few days before the '44 Winchester...I really like this Carbine...and I'm REALLY going to enjoy the Colt I added to the Deal.

Note: Pics will be up and soon as it gets here. With the 5 day Inspection period Im not taking any chances and will have a couple of guys here that collect them look it over.

Frank

Just remember that the time from a receiver being stamped and a carbine being built could be from two weeks to two months.

I just received it....

I had a hard time posting these, but It did come in once it's get accepted I will be more happy. It's between this or the '42 Winchester.

Frank

Tough choice ! Can you have both ? LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by F4Rio

Your serial number looks to be 5653--- which puts it in the 28 March batch of numbers.

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Thanks Bil...