I just go off the horn with Ron Norton of Inland

Ron personally assured me that the bolts on their M1 Carbines have been heat treated to a harder level than before, thus eliminaing the problems with his earlier rifles.

Ron went to the 2016 SHOT show and took two "mule" carbines as demonstrators. These samples had 10,000 rounds fired through them before attempting a "fire the rifles until they stop" torture test. This test was performed on the of firing these "well-used" Carbines without lubrication! They fired an average of 1800 rounds dry before stoppages! This leads me to believe that the "problem" with the bolts has been resolved.

Ron has, in fact, "taken care of the issue".

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Originally Posted by Captain O

Ron has, in fact, "taken care of the issue".

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That sounds all very good, but what does that do for all the other (New) Carbines in circulation?

My comment may sound like that of a detractor however, here is where I am coming from.

Not very long ago, I decided I wanted to add a shooting M1 Carbine to my collection, and I had a good number of options. Having a perfect collectible was not important, so the market was wide open.

For a USGI M1 Carbine the market value in Canada is about $500 (=/-$150) but it is a range only gun due to 18" barrel length (National laws)

A USGI M1 Carbine with a retrofit 18.5" barrel is $750-1100 and can be fired anywhere.

For a modern M1 Carbine such as an Auto-Ord or Inland they are priced at $950-$1150.

Naturally I gave the modern guns a good hard look, I had seen them advertised in the Canadian gun publications, and other media outlets. I had considered these carbine to be of the quality of the modern James River Armories Springfields and was ready to plunk down my $1G on one of these guns until I decided to do a bit of homework. That lead me directly to Jim (Sleeplessnashadow) very thorough thread about these rifles.

Canada is a unique firearms market for a lot of reasons, but in this circumstance it has to do with the country of origin of the product. If I were to encounter a warranty issue with my new purchase, it would have to ship back to the vendor, then the distributor, then cross an international border to finally get repaired by the manufacturer. Once it came out of repair, the process would have to repeat. In reality and second hand experience with other firearms, this puts most guns out of the owner's hands for upwards of a year, assuming the repair was adequate on the first try.

Since I am handy enough, I could try to order replacement parts from the US, but I can't do it direct in most cases, and the factory to the importer, to the vendor, to the end user, game plays out again. I had considered sourcing USGI parts, they are pretty common, but they may or may not fit, so that isn't an option.

To further raise my suspicions, I am seeing these modern M1 Carbines come up for sale on the used market with suspiciously low round counts, and attractive prices, in my market this is a red flag, firearms either hold value or appreciate, blowout pricing is a warning sign.

Another way I look at this my other major hobby, automotive performance industry, if a builder turns out a whole production run of substandard engines that break before their due, I would never buy one of these engines to see if the shop has "figured out" how to build an engine. Further if they were out promoting their "fixed" design before recalling and taking care of their former customers that have known parts quality issues I would be not at all pleased. The consumer market should not be the place to Beta test products, it destroys brand confidence, as it has mine in these new production Carbines.

What did I do? Well I bit the bullet and bought a USGI that I can keep running for decades by harvesting parts from the other 6 million parts compatible carbines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sentryduty

That sounds all very good, but what does that do for all the other (New) Carbines in circulation?

My comment may sound like that of a detractor however, here is where I am coming from.

Not very long ago, I decided I wanted to add a shooting M1 Carbine to my collection, and I had a good number of options. Having a perfect collectible was not important, so the market was wide open.

For a USGI M1 Carbine the market value in Canada is about $500 (=/-$150) but it is a range only gun due to 18" barrel length (National laws)

A USGI M1 Carbine with a retrofit 18.5" barrel is $750-1100 and can be fired anywhere.

For a modern M1 Carbine such as an Auto-Ord or Inland they are priced at $950-$1150.

Naturally I gave the modern guns a good hard look, I had seen them advertised in the Canadian gun publications, and other media outlets. I had considered these carbine to be of the quality of the modern James River Armories Springfields and was ready to plunk down my $1G on one of these guns until I decided to do a bit of homework. That lead me directly to Jim (Sleeplessnashadow) very thorough thread about these rifles.

Canada is a unique firearms market for a lot of reasons, but in this circumstance it has to do with the country of origin of the product. If I were to encounter a warranty issue with my new purchase, it would have to ship back to the vendor, then the distributor, then cross an international border to finally get repaired by the manufacturer. Once it came out of repair, the process would have to repeat. In reality and second hand experience with other firearms, this puts most guns out of the owner's hands for upwards of a year, assuming the repair was adequate on the first try.

Since I am handy enough, I could try to order replacement parts from the US, but I can't do it direct in most cases, and the factory to the importer, to the vendor, to the end user, game plays out again. I had considered sourcing USGI parts, they are pretty common, but they may or may not fit, so that isn't an option.

To further raise my suspicions, I am seeing these modern M1 Carbines come up for sale on the used market with suspiciously low round counts, and attractive prices, in my market this is a red flag, firearms either hold value or appreciate, blowout pricing is a warning sign.

Another way I look at this my other major hobby, automotive performance industry, if a builder turns out a whole production run of substandard engines that break before their due, I would never buy one of these engines to see if the shop has "figured out" how to build an engine. Further if they were out promoting their "fixed" design before recalling and taking care of their former customers that have known parts quality issues I would be not at all pleased. The consumer market should not be the place to Beta test products, it destroys brand confidence, as it has mine in these new production Carbines.

What did I do? Well I bit the bullet and bought a USGI that I can keep running for decades by harvesting parts from the other 6 million parts compatible carbines.

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They will replace/repair the problematic parts at no cost to the consumer. Ron Norton told me so himself. He wants his customers to be satisfied with his product. I don't know about our Canadian brothers, but there should be no problem with rectifiying the problems with their products.

You may not have problems obtaining old parts, but the accuracy may not be what you could obtain with a newer barrel. While Inland's receivers and bolts may be cast, but if you have a barrel that will realistically shoot .05 MOA at 100 yards, it is a truly "serviceable" piece. I know of few 1940's USGI barrels that will do this. A Fulton Armory barrel may accomplish this, but it will cost a healthy chunk of change and having Fulton manufacture a custom 20.5" barrel might be an expensive proposition.

It's all in what you want.

The question I have: Is what parts on the new Inland carbine will be interchangeable with a US GI M1 carbine? Any? Some? All?

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Originally Posted by Bubba-7

The question I have: Is what parts on the new Inland carbine will be interchangeable with a US GI M1 carbine? Any? Some? All?

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If you call Ron Norton at Inland Manufacturing at REMOVED BY MODERATOR I am sure he would be glad to tell you which parts will interchange.

PM Captain O for the number. Thanks

Do not plan on changeability; IMHO!

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Originally Posted by Captain O

shoot .05 MOA at 100 yards

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Isn't one MOA approximately an inch at 100 yards? You don't really mean 5/100's of that do you? :rolleyes: - Bob

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Originally Posted by USGI

Isn't one MOA approximately an inch at 100 yards? You don't really mean 5/100's of that do you? :rolleyes: - Bob

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No, that was an error. I meant .5 MOA (1/2)" at 100 yards. As far as I have learned, this is verifiable.

Please, there is no need to stoop to sarcasm. I had erroneously misplaced the decimal point.

Mea culpa.

I would bet my house that the carbine will not shoot .5 MOA.

I wonder why a person would want to shoot 1800 rds dry until it stopped, which damages the weapon, when it is designed to be lubricated? I would be far more impressed by 6,000 rds well lubricated which duplicates the GI test.

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

I would bet my house that the carbine will not shoot .5 MOA.

I wonder why a person would want to shoot 1800 rds dry until it stopped, which damages the weapon, when it is designed to be lubricated? I would be far more impressed by 6,000 rds well lubricated which duplicates the GI test.

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Ron did this to demonstrate that his cast receivers and bolts are fine, as long as they receive their proper care. Shot to destruction, he proved that, even without lubrication that they could be fired to nearly 1/3 the life demanded by the USGI endurance specifications.

This was one way to prove it.

Give that some thought.

When you buy one in 2017 give us a range report please.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Captain O

Ron did this to demonstrate that his cast receivers and bolts are fine, as long as they receive their proper care. Shot to destruction, he proved that, even without lubrication that they could be fired to nearly 1/3 the life demanded by the USGI endurance specifications.

This was one way to prove it.


Give that some thought.

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With all due respect: I don't see how this proves much if anything. How does his product compare heads up with the real thing? US carbines went the full 6K, some were just cleaned and sent out for issue after the test. So he broke his new gun in 1800 rounds? This is like taking a brand new car, draining all of the oil, and driving it until it seizes up and dies and then telling people it is a great car. Why?? I'd like to hear more about shooting 1" groups at 100 yds with a carbine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

With all due respect: I don't see how this proves much if anything. How does his product compare heads up with the real thing? US carbines went the full 6K, some were just cleaned and sent out for issue after the test. So he broke his new gun in 1800 rounds? This is like taking a brand new car, draining all of the oil, and driving it until it seizes up and dies and then telling people it is a great car. Why?? I'd like to hear more about shooting 1" groups at 100 yds with a carbine.

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Evidently you hadn't read that the Carbines had already digested 10,000 rounds before doing that.

A memory course and special vitamins may be in order.

What is the ratio of these carbines that functioned correctly to the # that self destructed [did not function or defective parts]? Total production!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thread Closed ... :banghead:

Regards,
Doug