Really abused Type 99

No photos for a couple of days, just got it today and have a funeral to attend tomorrow.

I have almost nothing invested in it, $25.

No time to really give information out on it other than it is a Kokura, probably series 20. The stock is chopped and further broken near the front. Bolt is bent, sadly matching. Bore is chrome and beautiful. Converted to 30-06, fair amount of pitting on exterior. Missing the slide on the rear sight. It is however functional as is.

My two options I guess are restoring it to look correct or use it for parts. Leaning towards restoring it as usual.

Got back earlier than expected.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jhj6o4gl-1.jpg Note the missing chunk of stock on top of forestock.
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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2g3gibph-1.jpg "Nice" Bubba carving on this side.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5w2ejtxz-1.jpg Pitting looks a lot worse in the photo, will probably polish out without too much effort.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...smxkv2ne-1.jpg Ground mum, bent bolt, missing slide and anti-aircraft wings.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...j8zzngjs-1.jpg 30-06 marking, sorry series number isn't clear. I can never decipher these but best fit looks like 20.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...xq1ssu2h-1.jpg Appears that some polishing was done for the 30-06 rounds to cycle. Rear of lifter also ground so bolt cycles on empty.

So it needs a new stock to start, new bolt body, barrel bands, rear sight parts and bayonet lug. I took the sling off it because it made it look 10 times worse.

When you get the bands make sure you get them with the screws, no one seems to be selling just the screws right now and I'm not fond of the repros I got from Numrich (namely they don't fit right). Also get the end cap with the front lug, as they are a right fit and I found out the hard way there is enough variation that getting a mismatched end cap/band together is really tough. A guy on eBay typically sells stocks complete with hardware but they always bring way too much money imo, you could easily get a parts rifle for the cost some of those are going for right now.

Someone else can chime in but I wonder if that was converted to .30-06 over here or if it was done by a foreign military before making it's way to the US. I have a neighbor who swore Type 99s were originally .30-06 ... I didn't say anything but initially didn't believe him until I read more later and confirmed such guns exist. I can't recall what the stamp looked like though, leaning towards saying that wasn't it. Wonder how they shoot since they originally used a .311, have you slugged the bore to see where it's at?

I haven't really done anything to it yet other than swab out the bore. Just haven't had the time. I've known about this rifle for a couple of months so I was able to research it a little. The 30-06 conversion does not appear to be military but civilian here although for the life of me I don't know why someone would bother with a stock in such bad shape. This assumption is based on seeing the military marks somewhere in the earlier research. These don't match. Previous owner did apparently hunt with it as he had the ammo and half the cartridges were fired. He passed away however so can't ask him any questions.

A fair bit of them were converted simply because 7.7 Japanese was never a common round in the USA.

Having done a restoration on a Arisaka I honestly wouldn't bother with this example. The caliber has been converted, and the mum has been ground. I would save the parts (as there is only so many originals out there) for a better example in the original caliber with the mum. If you want to do it for fun go ahead, however I would just leave it be at this point in time.

I don't need it for my collection, and I realize it won't be worth much in the end which is why I want to keep costs down. Just seems a shame to let a functional rifle go.

Hard to get a 30/06 chamber reamer to follow the 7.7 chamber by hand, look at the brass carefully to tell if it has not ballooned at the head. It may not though. Feeding rails may also give you trouble also if they were adjusted out to eagerly. Theirs some good gunsmiths in the woods of Pa. though. And if that fellow carried it after first day of buck morning, you may be surprised! Bore diameter is a little harder to tackle but you never know. Have fun.

The cases I was able to check. They looked fine. She told me her husband had three guns and ammo for each of them. She didn't know exactly where the other two were. I was curious to see if the others might also be military so I asked to see the ammo. The other two were handgun rounds and not military. I saw no bulges, no cracks, no excessive expansion. She was hoping I'd buy the rifle and I was looking for every excuse not too. I figure if worse comes to worse I'll have a back-up 30-06.

Well the gun wasn't tapped for scope mounts which is a plus so with the right parts you can get it reasonably correct. If it is safe to shoot and usable I'd say fix it. It would be kind of nice to have one you could shoot cheaply/easily with .30-06 brass as I think difficulty finding 7.7 (complete ammo or brass) means Type 99s aren't nearly as common out on the range as their contemporaries and you can probably get it together for a couple hundred bucks, and I've heard mixed opinions on reforming .30-06 for 7.7, plus it's extra time and extra step. I'm not advocating seeking out .30-06 Type 99 rifles to rebuild but in your case the price was right.

Also in checking my one source it said Series 30s did not have AA wings on it so if true one less (expensive) part to track down.

If it feeds, cycles, and goes bang I don't think you did badly at all.

Low buck projects are fun, and if you find a full length beater stock you have a place to put it.

Not a series 30, 20 best I can tell. It needs everything. I'm probably not going to seek out the mono-pod or the bolt cover and might go with just the slide for the rear sight.

My bad, misread. 20 would most likely have been issued with wings then.

Looked it up and the series 20 had all the early features.

Polished the barrel today and most of the ground mum but did leave some. I did discover that they did not enlarge it for the 30-06 shells so the magazine doesn't work for more than two. Trying to locate some information on what needs to be done there but haven't had any luck yet.

You can Find some information out of Kuhnhausens book the Mauser rifle and P.O. Ackley wrote of it as well but without the illustrations for clarity. Adjusting the break over and movement of cartridges when coming up through the well by observing the magazine rail taper vs its affect on cartridge taper polishing adjusting follower guide rib can be tricky stuff. I'll leave it to them, but I'm curious it'll only hold two?

I haven't put live rounds in it so I'm not exactly sure if the problem will correct itself with live ones. I have Swedish dummy rounds and they have the indented sides. I do not think that is the whole issue as the cartridges are just to long. The bullet tips catch on the lip of the front of the magazine well. The rear of the cartridge will go in and down at a steep angle after more than two are inserted. At this angle, the bolt just slides over them without catching on the rim to chamber the round. The cartridge hold downs also won't work at this angle so the third and fourth more or less just float around in the magazine but won't lift into the proper level. Probably cutting the front of the magazine well and polishing out part of the receiver well would do the trick.

The 7.7 is a little larger at the head than the 3006, thats why it is hard to follow the chamber with a reamer accurately by hand. The 30.06 is larger at the shoulder than the 7.7 so it takes up more space in the magazine well especially with the follower guide rib being a little wider than the 30.06 case will allow in a slimmer box. When loaded with 30.06 this will shove the rounds against the magazine well walls differently every time it is loaded to the side making drag with the cartridges and follower with spring wiggling around underneath and will be deceiving when you observe it to gauge the relationship of the works. If you begin by removing to much metal from the receiver rails errantly you will get stovepipe jams every third 2nd or 3rnd manipulation of the bolt. The follower in my opinion is the key to getting it to smooth up and can be easily replaced when booger-ed on accident. You can even find a replacement from like a k 98 and weld and grind to get them rolling up there smooth with some ingenuity. Maybe some one knows a trick that will work right off with minimal effort. 8 mm-06 conversions are similar and work good 8 mm case the same bit smaller-at the head so narrower guide-rib at the rear. 7.7 is 3.000 long at 174gr. most 30.06 is a tad bit longer at 150gr. but Hornady shows a 30.06 rnd. load at 3.000 that should solve length problems till you get everything working. I would strip bolt parts and use factory rounds with care or test dummies to spec to determine the relationship. chop those swede dummies to length unless their valuable to you to get that part out of the way. I built a sporter jap once for fun that had a 30.06 reamer ran into it. It ballooned case heads that were difficult to see by eye but were safe with factory ammo. I just could not get past the idea and scrapped it but kept the stock and small parts. I would like to fill that stock up with a 7.7 action and barrel but it would have to be in 7.7 now to eliminate what we are now discussing. There 's something about them (japs) though that makes me keep looking at them from time to time. Good Luck!

I'd have to agree and say it would be nice to have a T99 example in your collection that you can actually shoot without breaking the bank. Sounds like it will need a lot of work and money, but if you want it, I think it would be worth it in the end. If your just trying to get your money back out however, I wouldn't hesitate to scrap it for parts. Plenty of nice guns out there that just need one or two parts to get back in action, so it wouldn't really be a waste either way

I think I solved the 30-06 problem. Found another barrel in original caliber cheap.

Moneypit

Aaragon, Way to go on the 7.7 barrel. I was hoping you could find an original barrel. I've had a couple of T99s in 30-06 and they were nothing but a pain. There's too many issues that make this a lousy conversion. Way to go-- SaltFlat

I liked the idea of a 30-06 but after researching it decided it wouldn't really be beneficial. It's not like I'm ever going to shoot it much anyway but cutting up more parts in the magazine well to make it work just didn't seem like the way to go. That was the deciding factor I think. Not that I couldn't do it but I really don't like destroying more parts. Barrel appears to be the same type, chrome lined, identical front sights.

I have a new bolt body on the way also so I just need a stock now along with the associated barrel bands, etc. Unbelievable how much some of them are bringing on Ebay. I could buy an entire rifle for those prices.

Thats because there is a limited supply and the entire rifle is near worthless without it!

If I were you, I'd find a lightly sanded or varnished stock for cheap and refinish it to look original. Mahogany 225 under orange shellac looks very close to the nagoya orange/red finish

Lucky shelter pet obviusly found a good home.

I really did not want this rifle because I knew this would happen. Have to restore it. And now I have a second one, demilled M95.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I really did not want this rifle because I knew this would happen. Have to restore it. And now I have a second one, demilled M95.

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I know the feeling! But as you saw from my 38 carbine thread, it pays off in the end if its what you like to do

IMO the compulsion to reserect turns out to be great fun which is somewhat offset by the financial consequences.

if you want a 30/06 toy let me know find you a sporter quick. better some time to cut them up an sell part you would make enough to buy the right rifle :)

Step One: Bolt arrived and replaced. Barrel should be arriving soon. Have to work on that one for a bit. A barrel vise I can make pretty easily, the receiver wrench is going to be more challenging. Looking at them, I assume the bottom portion needs to be custom made for each type of rifle. I am not in a rush so this should be a long "fun" project.

Let us know how that action wrench works out, it may be a bugger to get apart. Thanks, Brian

If I make the action wrench using the same basic concept of the barrel vise, the bottom would attach with two bolts. That way it could also be swapped out with another for a different type rifle. Then again, I might shop around for one. This is a lot more complex than the barrel vise.

be careful with action it must be supported as not to twist or crush.
i have twisted bad receivers into lickerish sticks when tring to save a good barrel

Its gonna be a bear to hold and turn at the same time, does any one have an idea as to about the foot pounds a Jap barrel is screwed on to. More than a m1917 which I estimate to be about 65 to 85lbs. I tried to get a clunker apart one time and couldn't do it with a chain wrench to near destruction. I cannot say I think I could have gotten it done even with an inside action wrench, however that may have been a one off experience though because you were able to obtain a replacement barrel. If you got a barrel,relieve it at the front ring and you could screw it off with a strap wrench for sure without damage to the action. But that is a destructive decision to the re-chambered barrel obviously. Make an inside wrench and adjust threads to fit the new one. I'll try it and let you know what I find if your not in a rush. i planned on revisiting that project anyhow... hope it may help.

This is the type action wrench I'm talking about:

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/Pr...80800098_1.jpg

And the barrel vise:

http://www.dandelion-films.com/gun-barrel-vice-19.jpg

The barrel vise works with different rifle barrels by swapping out the wood blocks with different size holes.

The Action wrench requires brass fillers on the top and a different base which is action specific.

I'm not in any rush. Will take time to build either or both of these.

Barrel came today. Bore is chrome with no issues and exterior is in excellent shape.

That wrench looks first class, I forgot there was a substantial recoil lug at the bottom of the action, I measured a 7.7 action at .865 wide and .590 thick. for the recoil lug. The ring itself was 1.330 but I don't know how to choose what head you'll need I didn't see any measurements in a Brownell's catalogue I glanced at quickly. It might be close to a SR Mauser.I think maybe if the lug fits the milled out portion of the wrench laterally pretty close so it doesn't move left or right your golden! For some reason in my mind I did not see a receiver protrusion like a Springfield that would keep the wrench from slipping when bolted up and equated it to the recoil lug! Sorry, WTH was I thinking, good luck with your project! Glad your new barrel is good.

Got a reality check today in looking for materials to build a barrel vise. Might be cheaper to buy one new. Now on a quest for scrap steel and aluminum. May start in my basement, probably have something down there, somewhere. I know I'm regretting a few of the things I took to the scrapyard.

I got a decent deal with a gunsmith to replace the barrel. Looks like he'll take the old 30-06 in trade plus $5 on my part to swap them out. Got a stock set today so well on the road to restoring the money pit.

Took an hour and a half to get the barrel off. He stuck with his estimate so it cost $5. I did offer more but he wouldn't take it. New barrel is a little loose. Turns about 1/2 inch beyond the index mark. For now I have two layers of soda can in there as shims. Need to measure and get a stainless shim. Stock arrived today so it looks like a proper rifle again anyway.

I got an interesting note from my gunsmith this morning. He was having a heart attack while he was removing my barrel. He thought it was indigestion and did not want to take a break to go to the bathroom until he finished. Turned out it wasn't indigestion. Went to the hospital an hour and a half after I left and they put a stint in one of his arteries. He was lucky. Beware of those symptoms. I think he said 98% blockage.

wow guy was real lucky

Crikey 70 years after the war the Type 99 is still trying to eliminate people! (Hope your gunny is better)
He may think twice about working again on one of those rifles......!

Hope he's back to well soon, good luck with your project ,I knew it would be a bear but I didn't think that much.

He seemed fine. I was watching him and had a good wrench but the vise not so much. Couldn't get it tight enough on the wood blocks and kept spinning. He got flustered after about 15 minutes and said something about "being watched" so I walked outside and left him go. I've done business with him before and we just talked, not even about guns so much. Even after the hour and a half he still seemed OK. Did mention his stomach didn't feel well.

I've been asked to provide some updated photos so here it is. I am still actively seeking an end cap and the missing screw along with a cleaning rod. I wasn't ignoring advice to get the bayonet lug and cap together, the metal all came with the stock. Will probably hold off on the monopod, dust cover and aircraft sights for now but will keep my eyes open for bargains. Close up shows the aluminum shims. I got some good advice concerning the loose barrel on both the other thread and though PM's and have decided primarily due to cost issues to replace the aluminum with steel and leave it at that. Seems to be the preferred method of at least one serious Arisaka collector on the boards anyway. Keeps everything correct in case anything ever needs swapped down the road for whatever reason.

I did try to keep the parts period correct but not necessarily arsenal correct so I expect there are some discrepancies. I have not cleaned the new barrel at all so some light surface rust is still on it and I didn't wipe down the receiver since the barrel removal. Those aren't really scratches but just marks made by the wrench that I haven't wiped off. I've also done nothing to the stock, kind of like the way it looks.

The biggest investment was the stock, ended up paying about $140 for that including the shipping. My total investment to date is about $230 so I'm feeling OK about it. This barrel is in real nice shape compared to the original. No pitting at all, just a little surface rust that will probably just wipe off with a little steel wool and oil.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jex1xtkh-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...utbz0d2o-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...78jvp1ih-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...oouaqcyl-1.jpg

Thats beginning to look very, very nice! Good work!

great going keep at it

Outstanding results. We can't save the all. But like Aragorn I feel obligated to save those that find me and can be saved. Aragorn has inspired my own project though I think mine might be quite a bit less involved.

I found a nose cap on ebay this evening, buy it now which was nice so on the way. Also ordered a sling, cleaning rod and the two missing screws so should be complete minus the expensive stuff next week.

I would be happy to own a rebuild like that, not too pretty and the cost was certainly reasonable.

Everything but the cleaning rod arrived yesterday. Screws from Numrich would appear to be reproductions as they look brand new. Nose cap as suggested, did not fit, took about 20 minutes of hand sanding/polishing to get it to fit. Sling looks like every other repro sling, completely out of place, but I have to have a sling on my rifles. Maybe I'll go drag it through the mud a bit or something. I took a little time on Sunday to get all the surface rust off parts. Ended up using the original butt plate and screws rather than what came with the stock as it was in a little better shape. Once the cleaning rod comes, I'll take some more photos. That anti-aircraft sight is really nagging at me now. They went from about $20 three years ago to $60 today. In three more years they will probably be $90 so it's not like it would be a bad investment.

if you put the sling through the washing machine two or three times then hang it on the line in the sun for a few days it will loose that brand new look.

Here is the "finished" project. Still might get the aircraft sights at some point. Obviously have not run the sling through the washing machine yet.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...viuyou1a-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rqr9a6dy-1.jpg

oooops. i was thinking it was a webbing sling not leather. leather might require some experimentation first.

Looks great. Spent a bit of time at the bench the last few days. Some results in my Previous Mauser post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by henry r

oooops. i was thinking it was a webbing sling not leather. leather might require some experimentation first.

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Apparently, it should work with leather also. I'll probably give it a try. All kinds of suggestions for leather but washing and sun are the two at the top of the list. I think I'll skip dragging it by a rope behind the car.

Send this guy here a message if your looking for a AA-sight, he might have one not listed

Type 99 Rifle Parts


He is also where I got most the parts for my restoration of a Type 99 when I did one.