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I 'm looking at a Rem. with the cutout reciever. Rem. barrel, bolt with matching # to the reciever, floorplate and trigger group. Stock is a unmarked with the Rem. cutout for the bolt and the serial# stamped on the butt. Follower cut to keep the bolt from staying open after last round. Some small parts Edystone. Finish maybe black park. Bore needs cleaning. Import marked. Wants 550.00. What do you think?
You want a decent bore at the price. Everything else is OK, but bore condition is very important. Bring a cleaning rod to the deal.
Would you clarify what "the cutout receiver" refers to? Also "the Rem. cutout for the bolt"? I don't believe either Remington nor Winchester is known to have Parkerized any of their rifles during production, so it's been refinished at some point (not uncommon).
The receiver is cutout by either Norway or Denmark. The stock has the oval cut out for the bolt not the square off one like an Eddeystone.
Thanks Detroit. I'd never heard of that. Are there any pictures available of this cutout?
Here is an older thread with pics. The two main schools of thought were either a quick ID in the dark of the '06 cartridge, or machined to accept longer cartridge through strippers.
Quite a few threads debating this if you search the forum using "1917 notched receiver"
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....ght=Pics+M1917
Not sure about all the Model 1917 production plants, but an interesting story of the Eddystone plant (from remingtonsociety.org) stated:Quote:
Originally Posted by Iditarodjoe2
At the Eddystone facility the browning of barrels, receivers, bolts, guards, floor plates, upper and lower bands, front sight carriers, and butt plates were initially unsatisfactory, and this process required a huge outlay of manpower. The browning procedure was replaced by a process developed by the Parker Rust Proof Company. This new process came into full operation at Eddystone by September 1918, resulting in a decrease in manpower from 305 (for the browning process) to only 80 (for the Parkerizing process).
I'm sure it has been rebuilt at some time or another. My question is with the cutout and import marks is this gun worth 550.00? Does the cutout lower the value or raze it?
Thanks for the link, pickax. Most enlightening.
Detroit-1, just my humble opinion but historically I can't think of any case where European modifications to US Lend-Lease firearms have had a positive effect on their value. Think about Danish stock disk cutouts, "European beech" wood, Greek "B" stamps on 1903 floor plates, &c. Conversely, here in the US the premium has typically been on unmolested rifles that never left US hands. Import marked rifles are normally less desirable than those without such marks.
These are factors that primarily affect collectability. As a "shooter grade" rifle, I agree with Calif-Steve; your main concern is likely the condition of the barrel. You can at least visually inspect the bore and muzzle and do a "bullet test" but, sadly, I'm not aware of any readily available gage for checking throat erosion in a 1917. Best option, if possible, might be to take it out and see how it groups.
That's what I was thinking. I do collect WW11 guns and I know inport marks hurt value just wondering how much on a M17. I the bore is good, I do have the guages, I'll try for 400.00.
Do you have a throat erosion gage? If so, who made it and are they still available?
atI have both, throat and muzzle. Don't know if the throat will work on a M17. I got them both from the CMP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iditarodjoe2
I don't see where your gauges would not work on a '17. I would light up the bore for hard pitting as well. Black charcoal looking park has been reported on original Eddytone '17s, which are rare as hens teeth. C.S Ferris book describes Eddystone being the first to park rifles, but silent on Remington and Winchester. (Great book, and well priced on amazon).
As far as price and desirability of European mods, and import mark? These rifles seem to have most major parts intact, unlike American rebuilds, and are an interesting part of the whole history from outright purchase to lend lease.
Another 'rabbit hole' to go down using Ricks term on his Irish Enfeild.
Hope it checks out D-1, post some pics if you get it.
The muzzle guage will work but I thought the throat was made only for the M1
My wholly unqualified understanding has been that, although a .30 caliber muzzle wear gauge will work for any .30 caliber rifle, throat erosion gauges are model-specific. Gauges for the M14/M1A, M1 rifle, and M1 carbine are readily available. It appears that Columbus Machine Works still offers a TE gauge for the 1903-A3. But I'm not aware of anyone who currently offers a throat erosion gauge for the Model of 1917. Throat erosion seems to be a highly technical subject, and our friends at Fulton Armory offer this enlightening discussion by CMP Armorer Bruce Woodford. http://www.fulton-armory.com/%5Cfaqs...%5CTEGauge.htm
Two of the 1917s I own are imports with red paint and other markings. One of them is 95%+ all winchester. I consider it my best piece and the last one I would get rid of. The reason being is that it has more of a story to tell than of any other rifle I own. If your into pristine examples for a collection than the imports would be worth less, but if you are into their history, then....... Just my 2 cents worth.
I will have to think about it. I have been collecting for 8 years, Japanese, English, Swiss, German and US. Got rid of most and now trying to get the best that I can afford of US WW11. Have correct M1 carbine, Rem. 03-A3, Rem. 03 and a mixmaster M1. Would like a correct M17 but they are hard to find. Will let you know if I pick it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie5070
Checked the gun out again. Bore very good no pitting guages 1.25. Eddystone stock. Rebuilt black park. Serial # match on bolt and stock. Metal finish 80% exept on the floorplate which has more wear. Offered him 400.00 again, he has not got back to me. Front sight not Danish.