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Although this is not regarding a M1911 this seemed to be the most appropriate forum. I have a Colt M-1903 Army 38 cal. revolver that is in fairly decent shape, all matching numbers and proper markings. My understanding is that the M-1903 revolver, unlike the earlier 38 models, was improved to fire the 38 Special as well as the 38 long colt. Am I correct on that?
You have a Colt New Army & Navy revolver. These were originally contracted for in 1899 as .38LC and updated numerous times. Your model of 1903 is one of those updates. Almost all were arsenal refinished and updated at some point. Early models, for example, did not have the lanyard ring, but this was added to the older revolvers as part of the arsenal update. At some point the bores were changed to handle the .38spl but the barrels were not so marked. I don't have my books with me and don't actually remember when this happened. Parts are almost non-existent as are qualified gunsmiths and these are not easy to work on - I speak from personal experience. Colt completely re-designed their revolver action with the M1909 .45Army revolver.
In any event, I don't recommend shooting modern .38spl ammunition in these 100+ year old handguns, and in no event, ever should you fire a .38spl +P round through it. Serious damage to the revolver and personal injury may result. Both the gunpowder and steel used 100 years ago are very different from that used today. I suggest you use only .38LC ammunition if you are going to fire your revolver. Possibly .38spl Cowboy Action loads would be a reasonable substitute if you cannot find .38LongColt ammunition.
Hope this info is helpful and yes, this is the correct forum for your question..
I believe the bore diameter of the New Army and New Navy revolvers was reduced to help accuracy. To the best of my memory the Army Special was the first chambered in .38 Special.
The Model 1909 was simply the large frame New Service which came out in 1898. The Model 1909 Pistol was serial numbered in the same range as the New Service revolvers.
Thanks for the replys. This revolver is serialed 200,XXX and currently all of those little springs are intact and the action works well.
Quote from pages 189-190 concerning the development of the M1903 DA Revolver
"Colt quickly determined that their New Army and New Navy model revolvers would handle the more powerful .38 S&W Special cartridge. By reducing the barrel diameter to .358 inches, Colt was able to get the accuracy and performance given by the .38 S&W Special in Smith & Wesson's Model 1899 revolvers. The reduction in barrel diameter represented a small change in overall diameter and the revolver could still shoot the .38 Long Colt service cartridge without excessive pressure developing.
Colt began a marketing campaign to promote the ability of the New Army and New Navy model revolvers to fire the .38 S&W Special cartridges."
From the book it appears that Colt's concern was losing government contracts to Smith & Wesson's Model 1899.
Correction to my post above:
The Colt New Army & Navy revolvers were made from 1892 thru 1907. Models were 1892, 94, 95, 96, 1901 & 1903. Serial Number range was 1-291000. The Colt New Service, which was a new design to improve upon the New Army & Navy, was started in 1898 and was the basic design for the M1909 .45Army as pointed out by Johnny Peppers.
BTW, the only reliable reference text on these revolvers is the work by Robert Best, as quoted above.
The Colt New Service was a large frame revolver developed to handle large bore cartridges like the .44 WCF, .45 Colt, and .44 Special, although it could also be purchased in smaller calibers like the .38 Colts and .38 Special, and right toward the end of production the .357 Magnum.
When the Model 1909 Pistol was purchased, it was a stopgap ordered in small numbers to fill in until the .45 Auto pistol could be fully developed, and it just happened to fire the same cartridge that the Colt SAA was originally developed for. A larger rim was added to the Model 1909 cartridge to aid in extraction from the swing out cylinder.
Here is my 1901.
You are correct. But, I would recommend you stick with the .38LC as I do just to be on the safe side when shooting a pistol that is over 100 years old. https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC04016-1.jpg
19,000 M1909 Colts were received in service.
Colt shipped almost 22,000 of the Model 1909 revolvers to the military.
My M1909
The Model 1909 had the same high polish charcoal blue finish of the commercial New Service revolvers. This one was shipped to Manila in the Philippines on November 24, 1909.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03/ns5ep-1.jpg
Jughead, I have a Rock Island Arsenal marked holster that is dated 1910 and is initialed H.E.K. also. It also has the US in an oval on the front and a flap. The brass ring is all nice and intact as well. It is just like the center one in your previous post. It is in Very good to Fine condition. I am thinking about selling it but do not have a clue as to what I should ask for it. Any suggestions are appreciated.
I have a 96 colt. You might think about reloading for it.
Not sure how this post went from Colt 1903's to Colt 1909's but here's my 1909 rig. Love these old Colt's. https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC03134-1.jpg
Life can be confusing at times. The Model 1909 was mentioned as being the result of a redesign of the Model 1892 series, when actually it is a variation of another existing model, the large frame New Service.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman66
Sorry if my info was incorrect. I got it from here:
The Collection - US Military Revolvers
The information given at the site provided was for the 1909's shipped to the Army. The USMC purchased 1300 Model 1909 pistols in one order and another 85 on a later order. The Navy purchased 1000 of the Model 1909, and there was an order for 15 Model 1909 pistols that are more or less a mystery as to where they actually went.
Thanks Johnny P
the thread is great and for a size comparison - M1903-top / M1909 - bottom ,
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ifles016-1.jpg
Very nice display.
It was mentioned that gunsmiths for 1901's, etc. are hard to find. Is there anybody recommendable to work one over for safety and possibly refinishing?