Found a Mauser, Need Help with Markings, and What Mauser it is?

I am new to military gun collecting and am learning something new everyday.
I haven't gotten a Mauser yet and have run across this one and need help with what it is and what it's worth. The guy says it has Nazi markings on it and says it has a Nazi marking on the stock, so I assume it is a K98, which is what I am looking for. I think it is a rebuilt Mauser by another country, but not sure?
Can you look at the photos and let me know what you think?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...licoatbh-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...p5oovizm-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ygdvvdtb-1.jpg
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Would like to know the history of this Mauser, I believe it's a Yugo Mauser by the crest. Were these originally German K98 Mauser's since it has the Nazi markings? Any idea of year made? Are the Yugo Mauser's Real K98's that were sent to Yugoslavia after the war for their use? And I'd like to know the value? I have seen the Yugo M48 sell for $250 to $350 with bayonets, is this rifle considered a M48 or K98. I am confused. Sorry for all the questions, I am new to this and don't want to pay to much or get something that's not really collectable. I'd love to have a real K98, but they go for a premium.

It was an original German K98k, refurbed by the Yugoslavian army after WW2 at their Kragujevac arsenal. They scrubbed most of the original markings during this proces. But sometimes they missed some (or didn't bother), what will explain the few original German markings you'll find. Now it just a Yugoslavian M98 Mauser. Value is limited, lower than that of a comparable Russian Capture K98k in my opinion.

Lots of Yugos on the market now, Russian Captures dried up. So values are currently below an RC. It is also hurt by being scrubbed and having the Yugo crest.

That is a K98 rearsenaled by Yugoslavia post WWII. Thousands of these were given to Yugoslavia as war reparations and were reconditioned then never used. Yugoslavia already had their versions of the Mauser 98 the M24/47 and the M48 so they really didn't need these. Some will be in excellent shape some just ok. If your looking for wartime history it has all but been removed from these with Waffenmat markings seen here and there. As a shooter these can be so-so. If your looking for genuine wartime history look elsewhere and you will pay a hefty price. If you are looking for an excellent shooter in a K98 type Mauser get yourself a Yugo M48. Most of these are in very good to excellent condition with fantastic bores and matching numbers. I have a M48 and can confirm they are excellent shooters. I can shoot MOA at 100 yards with PPU 196gr ammo which it seems to love. Bill

The guys asking $350?
I liked the Nazi markings, but not the Yugo crest now that you all pointed it out.
I like the history behind this gun and the action I am sure it saw in WW2.
But, believe it may be priced to high for what it is?
Wasn't sure of going price on a rifle with the Nazi Markings and a Yugo Crest?

Three and a half works all day long. Buy it.

$350 is an OK price for one of these. Russian captures I've been told are going for $600 now. I haven't seen one for sale in a year so I wouldn't doubt it. The cheap M48's are bottom of the barrel from what I've seen. Good ones are $350 now.

The thing to remember is Yugo prices are low now but when the supply dries up which it is now giving every indication of doing so, the prices go up also.

The lowly Mosin Nagant selling for $59 with bayonet and gear just a few years ago is now pretty standard at $250. Still cheap but if you bought in at $59, you quadrupled your investment.

I'd make him a counter offer of $300, maybe he'll split the difference, or even accept.

I bought the rifle and picked it up tonight. It looks great, bluing is a little worn, everything is looks really good. I posted photos, what can you tell me by the markings? Several serial numbers, a few waffen eagle markings, looks like a waffen eagle stamp in the stock but hard to tell. Numbers stamped in stock butt? , I know it may not be a "True" K98 by collector terms but it once was and a would think it saw action by the Germans in WW2. I love the history of these guns and to think what they saw, Wow.. Can you all tell me what year you think it was made and any other history of facts about the rifle by the markings and overall appearance?
The guy came way down on the rifle from what he was asking, threw in a box of shells, gave me a gun case and met me 1/2 way.... I am very happy. :)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...egz4ql02-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...z9qtvlds-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7rt7bor6-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bb9ubxzn-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bn4lapng-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...licoatbh-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ayddzezx-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f1pgg8bp-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...wyoaffoj-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...eq74168k-1.jpg
http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps1c2ucg78.jpg
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It's also got a really thick butt plate? I have seen some Mausers with thick but plates and some with really thin butt plates? Why?
I'd love to hear from the Mauser experts on the markings and is there any way to date this rifle to tell when it was made? What's original and what did the Yugo's add other than their crest?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fu2p2idw-1.jpg

It looks great. Nice having the stock mark. The thick butt plates are later as is the laminated stock. Thin plates are early. I think you did very well. As to what is original, probably all German but probably not original to this particular rifle. Most likely they separated the parts and reassembled from bins. Hard to date it without the German markings, might be something under the stock.

It has the milled trigger guard and floor plate? Will this help narrow down the year it may have bee made? From ____ to _____ Years?


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pietd6zn-1.jpg

No, because everything was probably mixed up. Floor plate could be late war, stock early war, barrel and receiver pre-war, you just can't tell. All you can know for certain is that it was built during the Nazi era due to the stamps on the metal and the stock and you can assume (fairly safely) that it was used by the Germans in WWII.

You did well.
If you purchased this Mauser for less than the $350 asking price.

You have an actual 98K.
While it is not a numbers matching G.I. "bring back", it is still a rifle that was probably used, by a German soldier.

If you can see a serial number on the barrel it will probably be an original German barrel but if, more likely, you are unable to find a serial number on the barrel it will be a Yugo replacement barrel. The "thick" butt plates you mention are I think you will find are actually dished shaped and slip on over the butts giving the appearance of being thick. Personally I quite like these Yugo refurbished K98s and believe that they are massively under valued. I would not recommend trying to re-germanise the rifle by removing the Yugo markings but just enjoy it as it is. I believe that the Yugoslavs had quite a cottage industry refurbishing these rifles in the late 1940s and 1950s and some were exported minus the crest or so I was led to believe.

I am going to try and disassemble the rifle this weekend and look at the serial numbers behind the wood. I would have thought it was most all original and just has the markings removed? The bluing looks the same all over the rifles, worn evenly? But, I guess the Yugo's could have reworked the bluing and made it look worn? Maybe the markings under the barrel will tell more. I would like to date most the parts if I could, just for the heck of it. That's why I was asking for a date range on various items.

I took the rifle apart today and here are the markings I found... What can you tell me by these markings? Can we date the receiver/barrel by these markings? and Can we date the wood by the markings on the wood? Thanks,
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...x5qukuc4-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...whdo2ug0-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...piy0ihoz-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9rkbujml-1.jpg

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/a...psmrwmkmxy.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...kjxp4hpa-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dlfp1dpu-1.jpg

Most of them are inspectors marks. The 5 digit number on the stock is the original serial number. Might be a date on the base of the stock, 9 43? September 43. Can't quite see it and not sure if the Germans stamped the date there. Other marks don't indicate dates.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

Most of them are inspectors marks. The 5 digit number on the stock is the original serial number. Might be a date on the base of the stock, 9 43? September 43. Can't quite see it and not sure if the Germans stamped the date there. Other marks don't indicate dates.

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It is 9 43 ?

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Originally Posted by 68rs327

It is 9 43 ?

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Any information on dates would be appreciated. I know it's not a numbers matching gun and was probably made from parts and pieces? But, just knowing that it started it's life as a K98, most likely saw action in WW2, the history behind the guns alone is why I collect the military rifles. Numbers matching doesn't concern me as much as some collectors, the history is what I enjoy. I love learning as much as I can about the guns I own, the stories they could tell. I can remember growing up listening to my uncles talk about fighting in WW2. One was a Captain in a artillery unit in the pacific, my cousin has his army issued 1911. Three other uncles fought in Europe, they always told stories of fighting the Germans. Family get gatherings was always fun, and a history lesson. This is why I collect... the history.

Serial Number on the barrel is 858 and has proof markings on it.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...mrwmkmxy-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

If you can see a serial number on the barrel it will probably be an original German barrel but if, more likely, you are unable to find a serial number on the barrel it will be a Yugo replacement barrel. The "thick" butt plates you mention are I think you will find are actually dished shaped and slip on over the butts giving the appearance of being thick. Personally I quite like these Yugo refurbished K98s and believe that they are massively under valued. I would not recommend trying to re-germanise the rifle by removing the Yugo markings but just enjoy it as it is. I believe that the Yugoslavs had quite a cottage industry refurbishing these rifles in the late 1940s and 1950s and some were exported minus the crest or so I was led to believe.

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I don't really concern myself with all matching either. I mean it's nice but if it takes a particular rifle out of my price range, I'll go with a mix-master with no second thoughts. US rifles seem to have been rebuilt numerous times. German rifles often had bolts mixed up due to unit regs on shipping them home or they are complete mix-masters based on rebuilds from the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia or a few other nations post war programs. Japanese rifles also have the bolt issue along with the ground mum issue to deal with. British rifles also went through rebuilds but they seem to have made an effort to re-serial parts and didn't number everything like the Germans did. The Soviets rebuilt almost everything. The Italians didn't mark much so problem solved there. It's a crapshoot. My K98 is an RC with a 1944 receiver/barrel with an early flat butt plate stock. No clue on the other parts.

You at least have a date on the stock, that's a plus. Not sure if anything else is possible.

Aragorn... Thanks
I am still learning and probably will never know everything about the military rifles, but who knows everything.... That's why websites like this help.
I love the history behind the military rifles and it reminds me of fond memories listening to my uncles talk when I was a kid. My goal at one time was to try and collect a rifle from every country that fought in WW1 and WW2. I have 2 Mosin M91's one made by Westinghouse, the other is a Finnish capture, I have a 1916 Enfield made in Australia, Several Mosin 91/30, a few M44's, just bought a Carcano 1891 long rifle, a Gew 88 Mauser, and looking for a decent Arisaka.... Love them all. Numbers matching isn't a requirement with me either, nice when it happens, but isn't a must. I look for a good solid rifle, that's complete, not damaged or worn beyond use. I have a certain price range I like being in, which limits my options, but doesn't limit the thrill of collecting. Love the history, love researching the rifles, and love the fact that I can pass this all down to my son one day.
My Mauser may be a mutt.. but it started out as a K98, and has the same history story.... :clap:
Thanks for everyone's help...

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I don't really concern myself with all matching either. I mean it's nice but if it takes a particular rifle out of my price range, I'll go with a mix-master with no second thoughts. US rifles seem to have been rebuilt numerous times. German rifles often had bolts mixed up due to unit regs on shipping them home or they are complete mix-masters based on rebuilds from the Soviet Union, Yugoslavia or a few other nations post war programs. Japanese rifles also have the bolt issue along with the ground mum issue to deal with. British rifles also went through rebuilds but they seem to have made an effort to re-serial parts and didn't number everything like the Germans did. The Soviets rebuilt almost everything. The Italians didn't mark much so problem solved there. It's a crapshoot. My K98 is an RC with a 1944 receiver/barrel with an early flat butt plate stock. No clue on the other parts.

You at least have a date on the stock, that's a plus. Not sure if anything else is possible.

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You sound a lot like me when I started doing this and I seriously haven't been at it all that long. 26 years ago I bought my first three milsurp rifles and then didn't buy another until about seven years ago, look at my join date. Then I picked up a RC K98 and went into it with your same stated goal. One of each rifle from the major powers of WWI and WWII. Also on a tight budget so got fixer uppers. Now 7 years later, I have most of them and have gone beyond into the post Civil War era. Not on as tight a budget today but still like fixer uppers.

68rs327, I have a similar Yugo K98 to yours but in U.K. De-activated form. My example has a flat butt plate which is the main visual difference. Can you see any sign of "X" markings on any parts of your gun? My Yugo K98 has a feint "X" near the pistol grip which makes me suspect that Russia may have supplied/sold/gifted some K98s or gun parts to Yugoslavia post war. I'm not convinced that the number on the barrel is a serial number; I suspect that it could be a dated August 1958??? I have never heard of the Yugoslavs removing the serial numbers off the barrels but only off the receivers. I believe that quite a high number of barrels were replaced in the refurb programme including my example. My example has no serial number on the barrel.

Anyone know what the number on the barrel under the wood and the arsenal marks mean?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f7q5cpng-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

68rs327, I have a similar Yugo K98 to yours but in U.K. De-activated form. My example has a flat butt plate which is the main visual difference. Can you see any sign of "X" markings on any parts of your gun? My Yugo K98 has a feint "X" near the pistol grip which makes me suspect that Russia may have supplied/sold/gifted some K98s or gun parts to Yugoslavia post war. I'm not convinced that the number on the barrel is a serial number; I suspect that it could be a dated August 1958??? I have never heard of the Yugoslavs removing the serial numbers off the barrels but only off the receivers. I believe that quite a high number of barrels were replaced in the refurb programme including my example. My example has no serial number on the barrel.

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Picture wont load, see #21 above for photo and arsenal marks.... Also, my rifle doesn't have any X's on it anywhere..

If I may dare to post a link to another forum, this older thread has some of the most comprehensive first hand knowledge on Yugo Mausers that you will find and should answer most of your questions. Bill

Surplusrifle Forum View topic - Reposting some Yugo info

Thank you!

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Originally Posted by oldfoneguy

If I may dare to post a link to another forum, this older thread has some of the most comprehensive first hand knowledge on Yugo Mausers that you will find and should answer most of your questions. Bill

Surplusrifle Forum View topic - Reposting some Yugo info

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Just went to the link... Awesome information and great story from a former Yugo soldier and collector who visited the gun factories who reworked the K98's.

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Originally Posted by oldfoneguy

If I may dare to post a link to another forum, this older thread has some of the most comprehensive first hand knowledge on Yugo Mausers that you will find and should answer most of your questions. Bill

Surplusrifle Forum View topic - Reposting some Yugo info

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68rs327, is the number on the barrel which you have posted a picture of on the underside or the side of the barrel? I was under the impression that the K98s of the Nazi era normally had the serial numbers on the barrel stamped on the side near where it joined the receiver. I don't know if this was always the case with every example. Also have you noticed any Waffenampt markings on your rifle. My Yugo K98 still has many left on it although some were probably removed in the refurb process.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f7q5cpng-1.jpg

Serial number was on the bottom of the barrel under the wood. Can you answer a few questions I'd like to know.
*Any idea what year the barrel was made by the serial number?
*Any idea what the arsenal marks mean?
*Is the Barrel a German Barrel? So who replied said it's a Yugo Barrel, but I read the Yugo barrels didn't have any numbers on them?
I've posted several photos of the markings and numbers on the rifle, including the wood. Is there no way to date any of this by the numbers?
I know it's not a numbers matching gun, and is made from several different guns when the Yugo's rebuilt them. I believe the Entire rifle is all German made and the only thing the Yugo's added is their crest....
And Yes, my rifle has several Waffen Eagle markings on it. Looks like the only thing the Yugo's scrubbed was the top of the receiver?

I am not an expert on the subject of the Yugo K98 but I do happen to own an example and I am also a collector and enthusiast. In my opinion with the number on the underside of the barrel it is not a German serial number and probably not even be a Yugo serial number but it could be a date as I have stated in a previous post. It was my understanding that Yugoslavia did not serial number the barrels of their own manufacture. If there are is no sign of a serial number on the left hand side of the barrel near to the join with the receiver and no sign of a number having been removed and also if there are no Waffenampt markings on the actual barrel then in my opinion the barrel is most likely a Yugo replacement. Yesterday I got my example out and had a good look at it and managed, with a little patience, to discover the age and make of the receiver; you may be able/like to do the same. Here is what I did: the area that we are interested in is the top of the receiver just below the base of the Yugo crest. First I soaked a piece of 4X2 cloth in gun oil and rubbed the area over well and then rubbed it over again with a couple of tissues to remove all traces of oil and grease etc. You will now need a powerful magnifying glass; mine came from an old slide projector which I broke up. By holding the rifle at just the right angle in very good light by a window and looking through the magnifying glass I could just make out ax 41 just below the crest. This tells us that the receiver on my rifle was made at the Erma, Erfurt, Factory, Germany in 1941. You could see nothing of these markings with the naked eye.
You can look up the waffenampt numbers online to find the locations of the factories although I don't think that they have all been identified yet. Having a waffenampt number doesn't mean that the part in question was definitely made in Germany; occupied countries also used it as did a few Swiss companies I believe.


I'm not sure that you can date a K98 by just a serial number alone because of the way the system worked. You can, however, tell the period that the receiver was made from the letters on the top of the receiver and if you can see the numbers that follow that will give you the actual year of manufacture.


Perhaps other forum members can tell us about the arsenal markings, please?

Forensic science, I like it.

Thank you, I will try the CSI route, maybe I can see with magnification.

I found this website that answered a lot of questions about a date range on Mauser parts. Lots of good information and pictures.
Firearms and Uniforms of the Wehrmacht

---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 AM ----------

It has an awesome discussion forum full of different topics, war stories, weapons, pictures, really nice website.
Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums - Powered by vBulletin

The other reason that I think the numbers on the underside of the barrel are a date is the the numbers themselves or rather the second 2 numbers i.e. 58 which would fit in with being a date of manufacture or refurb.


Am I correct in thinking that it is illegal in the U.S.A. to own a Firearm which doesn't have a serial number?

Not exactly. It is illegal to alter a serial number. There are a lot of firearms that don't have serial numbers, specifically older shotguns. I had a Mossberg with no serial number, probably manufactured in the 1960's.

I seem to recall the cutoff was 1968 when firearms serials became mandated in the USA. As an aside, loads of firearms were produced without serials, the vast majority Cooey firearms in Canada were produced without serials.

What made me wonder is the T.V. programmes we get over here and which I watch sometimes of traders buying storage Lock-ups. Some of these are from the States and they seem to make a bit of a fuss when a weapon turns up with no serial but thinking about it it may be when a serial number has obviously been erased that there is a problem with the purchaser retaining the gun?

I am totally uncertain about what would be done with a post 1968 firearm with an altered serial number in the US. In fact even in Canada I would have to make a phone call to find out, obviously if I were buying such an item I would simply steer clear of the whole thing. However sometimes folks do turn up firearms during home renovations or other legitimate circumstances, and in some cases have been allowed to keep them after completing the correct process.

When we had our Long Gun registry, and the "problem" of un-serialized firearms came up, there were a number of interesting solutions. Some people would assign their own serial number, based on whatever they chose, some were applied with stamps, others with electropencil and dremal tools, others where crudely scratched into the metal with a sharp instrument. The official means would be to apply for a serial which would be issued by mail on a tiny gold foil sticker, which was then applied to the firearm by the owner. As a footnote the stickers were not durable under normal handling. The group in charge of the registration either did not care, or was not knowledgeable enough to ask how a Cooey Model 60 (example of unserialized production firearm) came to have a serial number at all. (Just minor historical observations/commentary)

The serial numbers either officially or unofficially assigned to firearms had no real life application to the make, history, production date, or brand of the firearm, which I am sure may puzzle future collectors trying to establish provenance of any of these guns. Luckily most collectible military guns were heavily serialized so they were mostly spared from the "Bubba Compliance" scratchings and stampings.

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Originally Posted by Sentryduty

I am totally uncertain about what would be done with a post 1968 firearm with an altered serial number in the US.

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Removing, defacing or altering a s/n and/or possession of a firearm with a s/n that's been removed, defaced or altered is a felony in the U.S., regardless of when it was made. The gun will be confiscated and unless the s/n can be recovered it gets the axe in most cases.

If you make the firearm yourself, it doesn't have to have a serial number unless you decide to transfer it. Then I think you need to come up with both a manufacturer name and a serial number.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

If you make the firearm yourself, it doesn't have to have a serial number

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Your right, but from what I've read the ATF strongly recommends it does so it can be identified if it's lost or stolen.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

you decide to transfer it.

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The laws concerning an unlicensed person manufacturing a firearm for personal use are quite clear but they get really murky when it comes to legally transferring one. Only conclusion I've been able to draw is it would be wise to have the ATF's blessing(in writing) before the transfer takes place.