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so a few weeks ago I picked up a rifle at a price I could not pass up. only problem was a broken bolt handle. was told it is a carcano but can find no info on a carcano with a removable mag chambered in 6.5x54 MS. any one got any ideas on how to help me id this thing ?
Pictures aid the people here to assist you with your request there is plenty of info on how to post them just use the search tab top right on the page.
Attachment 72012 i'm sorry but this is the only one I have at the time till I return back to the states.
It resembles a Carcano in some ways but if that is what it is, it's been very heavily modified. The rear of the bolt looks right, the safety does not, looks larger than it should be. The magazine is what was altered the most to convert it from using clip to a magazine.
Could be something altogether different also. More photos needed. The Italians never used that round that I'm aware of. Militarily it was limited to Greece and Austria-Hungary. It was a popular sporting cartridge at one time.
The action is what looks carcano but the safety was changed for the scope I believe. The scope was on it when I got it, that's the reason I got the rifle was for the scope. I read that they chambered that round but no photos I found matched. The carcano in that round was made for the greek army, that's all the info I was able to dig up.
Well, I look forward to more detail photos. I am intrigued by this mystery.
Here in Canada sporter Carcanos in both the original 6.5x52 and 6.5x54 are relatively common. 6.5x54 was a popular cartridge back in the day, more popular than 6.5 Carcano, and it could be made to work in the action with a slight reaming of the chamber (this is what the Greeks did with there captured Carcanos as well, in fact some of the sporters are likely Greek captured Carcanos).
Looks like whoever did it reused the trigger guard as it still has the mannlicher clip ejector button and the screw to hold it (at least from this angle it looks reused, though that would have taken a ton of effort). Usually people didn't put that much effort into Carcano sporters (usually simple stock chop, maybe rechambered to 6.5x54 and maybe barrel chopped down a bit and rear sight changed) as if you had the money you could get something like a mannlicher schoenauer in that caliber already.
I have a Carcano modified for the 6,5x54 MS round. The barrel is 0.264" groove diameter (and has eight lands, IIRC. ) Definitely NOT something with which to shoot the original Italian rounds! Or the current Hornady Carcano ammunition as the Carcano groove diameter (and bullets) is spec'ed out several thousandths larger, about 0.267"-0.268".
the ejector button is now used as the mag release to drop the mag
ok so I am home what pic would make this id go fast ?
I'd want to know how they "Broke" the bolt handle? If they were giving it away, maybe...but I wouldn't buy a broken rifle in an obscure or possibly unavailable cartridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpersnoopy
they say the mgr was taking the gun apart and it slipped out his hard and landed on table
A steel bolt handle? This thing ain't made of glass...
I think we need close up photos of the action both open and closed from different angles along with the top and bottom.
It's been known to happen, I've repaired several over the years that were broken off from being dropped......one of which was mineQuote:
Originally Posted by thumpersnoopy
Heating/welding to re-shape the bolt handle tends to cause the steel to become quite brittle. If it's dropped and lands just so the handle can snap right off like glass.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
The pictured bolt is from a bubba'd M41 I restored a while back. This is how it was when I got it, don't have a clue as to what caused it to break.
That I'm aware of, just the story sounds a bit far fetched is all.Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage hunter
Your bolt looks like it was changed for a bent bolt body sort of thing. Then welded wrong...
how many pics can I upload in one post got pics on phone got to transfer them to pc then upload
You can upload whatever you need to.
sorry was playing with new phone to get them over
That's just kind of all round scary. Does appear to have once been a carcano but not much of that left.
ya so I that's why I said I was kinda lost in trying to id it
To help you out some, I believe it was made at FNA Brescia in 1942. I can't see the FNA clearly but the FNA mark is on the underside of the receiver. I don't see anything else that can be more helpful.
how good is that round ?
It isn't the original caliber of the rifle so the barrel chamber was changed. From what I hear, it's a very good round and ammo is available and it isn't expensive. Privi Partisan makes it.
...I must respectfully diagree with
Sometimes it is better to pass up on apparent bargains. The sad object in the photos appears to have once been a 1942 Terni-made M91/41. In "Il Novantuno" by Wolfgang Riepe, P. 230, there is a list showing that in 1942 Terni produced 70,000 M91/41s with the serial numbers Txxxx - Zxxxx. The leading letter appears to be a scruffy X.Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpersnoopy
ONLY? The squared-off root if the bolt handle serves as a safety lug. So if the handle is altered, the original root MUST be left in place. Others will doubtless have different opinions, but it looks to me as if EITHER the original bolt handle was replaced by an incompetent welder who cut off the root and produced a "dry joint" which has now failed OR, on the other hand, it was the original bolt handle that developed the shear crack. Only a hands-on inspection can tell, but it is quite possible, since the squared-off root of the bolt handle also serves as a safety lug, that the locking lugs were softened and so badly set back that the recoil was being passed on (at least partially) to the root of the bolt handle, creating an enormous shear load that caused the dubious weld to crack and fail. I would not want to put my face behind that bolt and fire that rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpersnoopy
IMHO it is a dangerous dud.
A rather ambitious specimen of amateur gunsmithing.
Take a Carcano. Alter it for a detachable magazine. Alter the safety for use with a scope. Install a Weaver sidemount. Change the caliber to 6.5x54MS. Use the stump of the original barrel to make a bushing, set the MS barrel into the bushing. This was a standard on the Carcanos altered by Cooey in Canada for sale through Eatons. A '91 has gain twist rifling, so shortening the barrel from the front isn't a good idea. Sporterize the stock. Then there is the bolt handle. This part of the job was really botched. A properly altered handle should not fall off if dropped.
A replacement bolt body could be obtained, and the handle properly converted. This would be preferable to tryng to fix what is there.
Then there is the issue of headspacing. Heaven only knows if the rebarrelling, chambering and headspacing was done properly in the first place.
its going to a gunsmith here in texas to look at and see about new bolt body and headspacing the break in the bolt handle was seems to be a crappy weld. seen air bubbles in the metal almost thinking jb weld was used not a welder
The Trigger guard and floorplate is typical of the Italian-Made Japanese Navy "Type I " (as in Italy) Ordered by Japan and delivered in 1939-40 by Ship and then Submarine.
They used a Modified Carcano Action with an Arisaka (Mauser style) Magazine, and furniture for T30 Bayonet. Very well made rifles (Beretta, Terni, and FNAB); some 60,000 delivered.
If it is an 6,5x54MS ( common in Canada) then that would make it a Local Conversion.
Shame, though, one less for collectors.
Make a good deer rifle of it.
Doc AV
ya that looks like whats its gunna be is a deer rifle
Thumper,
How does it shoot ?!