Photos of my new Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1 T sniper rifle

I picked up an Enfield No. 4 Mk 1 (T) recently. This is a 1944 BSA Shirley rifle that is one of the "less scope" rifles built by Holland & Holland and then mated with a scope at some later date. The kit consists of the rifle, scope, scope mount, lens covers, hard scope case, original 1907 sling, cleaning kit, and original transit chest. This was a "friend of a friend" deal and the seller lived only 10 minutes away!

The rifle is all matching with appropriate markings in the places they should be marked. I posted some photos of markings over at Gunboards when i was looking at the rifle. The shots weren't very good so I plan to retake them later.

The rifle has a pristine bore and is very clean overall. The scope is crisp and clear with "normal" resistance for adjustments.

The case. The carry handles were removed some time ago. I'm considering having repros made and installed so any info on those is appreciated.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8xhonkcx-1.jpg

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The inside is missing the front top block.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...zphjiihz-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...guytejuz-1.jpg

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Scope case. The case matches the mount

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7imp8wzp-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fcj0q19v-1.jpg

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5kw21491-1.jpg

The scope is marked "W" and "B" for "Waterproofed" and "Bloomed." (What exactly is "blooming" anyway? I know it made the scope brighter, but how?)

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pi3nreyq-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...t20B20JP-1.jpg

The colors are a bit oversaturated in this one, but I like the shot.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dited20J-1.jpg

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And here's a "behind the scenes" of my quickie makeshift photo studio. I shot outside on a partially cloudy day. Full overcast would have been better but I wanted to get these the day I picked it up. The changing lighting as the sun came in and out did cause some issues.

I hung an army blanket from a windowsill weighted down with two bricks. I put a second blanket on the ground and hid the seam between the two with the chest. I put a white "science project" tri-fold on the right as a reflector, but I'm not sure how much difference it made. I shot with my Nikon 3200 in RAW and also with my wife's Canon Powershot D40 in JPEG. The Nikon shots turned out better overall (not always the case) except that the battery died near the end. I had to color correct the full length shots because I took them with the Canon and everything wound up with a blue tint due to some white balance issue.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...enes20Ed-1.jpg

Gorgeous..Lucky find!!

What a nice clean rifle. Very nice...

Very nice.

Moore Leather in the UK makes reproduction leather carrying handles for the No. 15 chest. I bought a set and am happy with them. They make other leather accessories worth looking at too, such as the carrying strap for the No. 8 MK. I scope case.

British - WW2 - Fittings, Rifle Transit Chest, Leather - Moore Leather

Replica scope caps for the No. 32 scopes
http://www.mooreleather.co.uk/sniper-scope-lense-caps/sniper-scope-lanse-caps---ww2---british

Returned Stores Group.
Building 22E
Base Ord Depot Donnington

The transit chest often tells a totally different story then the rifle, thats why the 4T attracts so much love of ownership. The various parts, stamps and numbers that all tell a separate story, unravelling a true detective story if researched correctly.
Wonderful alround rifle and wedged in British and Commonwealth history ;);)

Very nice. I assume you say it's a 'less telescope' rifle because of the lack of a body side-wall T? The label in the tin is old (?1951) & the scope bracket bears just one rifle number (& the font is one I recognise from seeing on numerous other examples) - yours, so they've clearly been together a long time. Is the scope number stamped into the butt in the usual place?

- added later - I am just wondering if it's a matching rig that just by fluke chance escaped getting its body wall T before it left H&H's.

The R prefix rifles came just at the cusp of the year change over from 1944 to 1945, examples bearing either date existing.

A very nice find.

Very nice rifle. I have a few sets of the leather handles available too made locally to original spec. Not sure where you're located. They're perfect. PM me if still in need.

---------- Post added at 12:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 PM ----------

Welcome Peter Crampton! It's about time you joined us!!

Gil Boyd is spot on about the Transit Chest SA No. 15 telling its own story. Unfortunately one cannot be sure if the chest and the rifle always travelled together even if the chest is numbered on a tag to the rife. One of my chests had many layers of markings. I eventually uncovered "1 GREEN JACKETS" "H T DONERA" (a British transport shipv apparently that took troops to and from foreign postings) and "TIDWORTH" (a depot). Although I have the rifle that came in that chest, the chest was not numbered to the rifle (no end tag in metal sleeve) so I do not know if they had travelled together for a long time.

Or do you mean the trooper DUNERA? I think that 1RGJ came back from Borneo on it. That was one of its last trooping assignments

Also a good probability why the leather handles didn't survive. The Far East was a killer on all leather.
I remember the leather waist and shoulder covers that went over the PARA bergen frame, being eventually eaten away in the incessant downpours and tropical heat in the oolloo, albeit I know the chests were exactly that, a transit chest, but they still sweated in the armouries like the weapons. The canvas bags were the best part of the bergen, until they made us trial some plastic crap whilst there, which had no buckle ends and everything just fell apart.

The saviour.....................44 Pattern, the workhorse of jungle warfare and the watyer bottles even used by lads today;)

I just checked on the link Seaforth provided regarding the leather items an I'm a little confused. http://www.mooreleather.co.uk/sniper...ww2---british\ I have one the same as the 3rd pattern mentioned that is stated as the latest pattern but the strap is stamped B.H.&G 1941. It would seem that would be an earlier WWII pattern.

Interesting I also have one of the 2nd Pattern caps they list as a- RARE VARIATION with the
darker creased leather versions they show, on my other 44 "T". Ray

Here's photos of it

Attachment 72707Attachment 72708

P.S. By the way, That is a beautiful rifle, congratulations on finding it, Ray

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Originally Posted by rayg

Here's photos of it

Attachment 72707Attachment 72708

P.S. By the way, That is a beautiful rifle, congratulations on finding it, Ray

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That T might just be a little on the rare side as well RAYG.

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Originally Posted by Bindi2

That T might just be a little on the rare side as well RAYG.

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I only wish I had the original scope and bracket for it as everything else is parts/period/matching correct on it except it was missing the cutoff and I replaced it, Ray.

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Originally Posted by rayg

I only wish I had the original scope and bracket for it as everything else is parts/period/matching correct on it except it was missing the cutoff and I replaced it, Ray.

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Q. Would the cut off have been left on the rifle when it was converted to a T.

I believe there was a discussion some time ago about that. I think it was on Badger's site where the informal, (non documented), consensus was that it was left on but some snipers had removed it. Ray

The cut-off could only be removed in an Armourers shop. Not possible for an average sniper to do so. And if an Armourer removed it, same as on a No1, they were aware that it would just be another hole/slot for dirt. dust and other crap to enter the rifle. Designers also knew the phrase that 'dust and dirt are the arch enemy of magazines'. That's why they welded the view holes up on sten gun magazines.

It's only anecdotal but all of the 'unadulterated' Trials 4T rifles I've ever come across retained their cut-offs - at least as far as I can recall. It might seem counter intuitive, until you read Peter's posting above.

Another breath of common sense or what my mum used to call '.....the bleedin obvious' from Roger!
Re thread 14 and eye caps So far as I recall, from 1965 or so, there were only about 4 patterns of eye caps. No loop, 'no loop' with the loop cut off showing their ex No42/53 origins. Then the split types Into the late 70's with a dire quality black dyed monstrosities where the black dye was used to cover the dire quality and the later very thin poor quality L1A1 tele specific type. All types of leather was used. None of them were rare as such and the appearance of the leather was of absolutely no concern. If it was, the part numbers would have changed. And you'd still find 1955 dated old and dry leather caps coming through the system well into the L42A1 rifles old age.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

The cut-off could only be removed in an Armourers shop. Not possible for an average sniper to do so. And if an Armourer removed it, same as on a No1, they were aware that it would just be another hole/slot for dirt. dust and other crap to enter the rifle. Designers also knew the phrase that 'dust and dirt are the arch enemy of magazines'. That's why they welded the view holes up on sten gun magazines.

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Just curious and a question, not that it makes any difference now. But as my "T" was otherwise 'unadulterated' except it had had the cutoff removed. Would the Armourer remove a cutoff for a sniper on request? Although I can't see any advantage for the sniper to have it removed. Ray

Well......, he could remove it but the spec was that the rifle would be as manufactured. That's why solid block band foresights and 2 groove barrels were a specification reject for so long. But I just can't imagine a well trained, savvy and wise sniper asking to have a cut-off removed knowing that the ONLY thing that'd happen is more dust and sxxxe getting into the works. When the time came to replace the fore-end to a later standard high sided one, that'd be a different matter. That's just me saying how things were on the shop floor knowing that you just couldn't do your own thing

I examined the No. 15 chest again more closely and can confirm that Peter Laidler was correct and that the correct spelling of the ship's name was DUNERA.

My 1931 Trials which was converted to sniper equipment at Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield in 1941-1942 had the magazine cut-off removed at some point. I suspect that this was during the Factory Thorough Repair and a later "high wood" fore-stock replaced the early "low wood". The High wood fore-stock covers the now empty slot. There are enough photos around of ex-Trials rifles converted to sniper that retained the magazine cut-off to know that this feature was NOT removed at the time of conversion. The original scope (number unknown) was removed, the butt was changed and a newer No. 32 MK.; III scope was fitted, so it is "matching in-service" and it is impossible to restore it to its "matching as converted" configuration. As this rifle remained in British service until at least 1963 (re: army tags) I have decided to leave it as it is.

These two photos show the magazine cut-off still in place after conversion to sniper equipment.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...56thDiv2-1.jpg

Lance-Corporal A. P. Proctor, a sniper with the British 56th Division, cleaning his 1930s Trials rifle which had been converted to sniper equipment. 24 November 1943.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...als20120-1.jpg

British soldier of the 1st (Airlanding) Battalion, Royal Ulster Rifles, 1st Airborne Division with a 1930s Trials rifle converted to No. 4 MK. I (T) sniper equipment. Circa 1942. IWM photo H23360.

There are pictures of the trials Ts but how many have survived in original or FTR form.

Certainly see the trial variations on the bolt.
Thats the P Type Helmet made by BMB in 1942 for Airborne Forces which dates this lad with numerous weapon skill photos including this one we have at the Airborne Forces Museum from the RUR to that year.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Well......, he could remove it but the spec was that the rifle would be as manufactured. That's why solid block band foresights and 2 groove barrels were a specification reject for so long. But I just can't imagine a well trained, savvy and wise sniper asking to have a cut-off removed knowing that the ONLY thing that'd happen is more dust and sxxxe getting into the works. When the time came to replace the fore-end to a later standard high sided one, that'd be a different matter. That's just me saying how things were on the shop floor knowing that you just couldn't do your own thing

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Thanks Peter, I guess who removed the cutoff will just remain a mystery. Otherwise the rifle is still all in its original Trials rifle configuration having all its original and correct early components/parts, ie: waisted front sight guard, rounded Mk VI cocking button with the side screw and it's original early Enfield "VI" marked magazine. No post 1950 London proof House stamps, rebuild nor any US import stamps just the right receiver stamped “England”. Ray

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Originally Posted by Seaforth72

Gil Boyd is spot on about the Transit Chest SA No. 15 telling its own story. Unfortunately one cannot be sure if the chest and the rifle always travelled together even if the chest is numbered on a tag to the rife. One of my chests had many layers of markings. I eventually uncovered "1 GREEN JACKETS" "H T DONERA" (a British transport shipv apparently that took troops to and from foreign postings) and "TIDWORTH" (a depot). Although I have the rifle that came in that chest, the chest was not numbered to the rifle (no end tag in metal sleeve) so I do not know if they had travelled together for a long time.

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WOW! you lucky chap!! I served 3 Royal Green Jackets.

That is some fine preserved history....keep it that way!!!!! I'd shoot it a time or two if it was mine. That's a very nice piece of equipment!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Seaforth72

Gil Boyd is spot on about the Transit Chest SA No. 15 telling its own story. Unfortunately one cannot be sure if the chest and the rifle always travelled together even if the chest is numbered on a tag to the rife. One of my chests had many layers of markings. I eventually uncovered "1 GREEN JACKETS" "H T DONERA" (a British transport shipv apparently that took troops to and from foreign postings) and "TIDWORTH" (a depot). Although I have the rifle that came in that chest, the chest was not numbered to the rifle (no end tag in metal sleeve) so I do not know if they had travelled together for a long time.

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Colin, tried to reply to your PM but your inbox is full!!