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It's coming in now at about $.50 a round locally. 174-grain, non-corrosive stuff. The guys on the Enfield rifle boards have had good results, but I'd like to hear the ACTUAL EXPERIENCE of the Brotherhood of the Bren before I shell out for a few thousand rounds. Or more.
Well I did it myself. Cost came out $.54/rd delivered in the USA (there's a small discount if you're an FFL). Got it from these guys:
WPA (Wolf) .303 BRITISH 174grn FMJ 20rd Box
The Wolf .303 is copper-washed steel case, berdan primed, noncorrosive. Flat-based 174gr bullet. MKVII or MKVIII equivalent? I dunno. Ran a magazine of 20 thru the Bren yesterday on full-auto with nary a bobble. Nice smooth cyclic rate and good ejection. At worst it will qualify as "blasting ammo" for fun shoots. Allowing me to save my better, pricier .303 ammo for more serious endeavors.
But it may be better than its price and pedigree may indicate (Wolf is not exactly known as match-quality ammo). Never know until you try.
So sometime in the next week or so I'll test it against some good FN or PPU .303 for accuracy and POI in the Bren. And I'll also test the Wolf in my Enfield No4Mk2 rifle for accuracy and POI. I'll post the results here afterwards.
Onward through the fog!
watching with interest.
Thanks for the info. :thup:
I will see how it does in the Vickers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent
You lucky man Vincent!:clap:
....Yes, and a REALLY lucky .303 machine gunner would be trying it in a Charleton or Huot!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Or.....maybe not. ;-)))
-TomH
Aim still lists this ammo at $7.95 for 20 round per-box .
Well I hope you are happy making a grown man cry, the price of ammunition here in Australia would have you bankrupt
Dick
A good indication of its quality (or lack thereof) would be to run it through a chronograph to note its consistency.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNatural
M
Soooo how long is a week been almost a year glad I do not run by MrNatural's calendar as it would be a long time between birthdays...................perhaps he got lost going "onward through the fog!"
You do have a point (that I missed). This thread has grown a beard.
M
The bi-metal jacket wears your barrel faster than copper jacket.
but only if you are shooting up hill in the rainQuote:
Originally Posted by jeep
Took my semi Mk II up to the range yesterday. Used a bunch of 1951 RG surplus which worked fine, one failure to fire in every 120 rounds or so, which to be honest isn't terrible.
Switched to the wolf steel cases and immediately wished I hadn't. Out of 10 rounds, 5 cases ended up with case head separations at the neck. 4 of the times the next round feeding into the barrel ended up not seating (obviously) and pulling the ruptured case head out when I recocked the gun. The 5th one I had to use the old ruptured case extractor (which always works a treat )
I would not recommend this ammo to anyone.
This German produced 303 is now available in the colonies.
500 Round Can - 303 British Surplus Ammo - 174 Grain Bi-metal FMJ 1980s Vintage made by MEN in Germany | SGAmmo.com
Is this ammo any good ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip
You can read the comments on the advertisement...glowing...Quote:
Originally Posted by tr63
I have no issues with the wolf steel cased ammo in my semi auto MKII, I have a spare barrel from IMA to use so I dont wear my numbered barrels. I have had zero case head or neck splits with it after 500 rounds, uses the same gas setting . I picked up some of that MEN stuff from SG, havent tried it though, it does have bi-metal bullets like the Wolf so if you are a volume user its a little tougher on the bore. But the brass case is easier on the gun overall..
You lucky bugger !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by kpj53
I’m going to run an inspection on my Mk II barrel and bring a spare with me next time as well.
I’m glad it worked okay for you, I’ll give it another go next range day
It works OK in all three of my barrels, but I have only used the one for quantity shooting. I just fired another 100 rounds (Wolfe) yesterday and no issues except loading the first round. The rim drags on the mag so I have to pull the handle twice on the first round, after that its fine (I usually load a mag with 20 rounds). Will probably polish the feed lips on one mag just for the steel ammo.Quote:
Originally Posted by csmarcher
Only problem is its cheaper so I fire a lot more rounds now, used to fire 40-50 of brass when I took it out and now I fire 100 :)
Why not just stock up on brass cased German MEN ammo while it's available. At .50 cents a round, how can you possibly go wrong? It's made to Mk.7z specification instead of Mk.8 like the Wolff which is much better anyhow, especially if you shoot rifles too. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
Wolf is 38c/rd retail, I pay 26c/rd wholesale in 10,080rd pallet lots (36 cases).
So far, I have put just slightly under 5000rds through my factory original '42 Daimler-Monotype MkII machinegun, with ZERO issues as I have explained before. I use about 8 barrels interchangeably, MK I and MK II's.
It also has worked flawlessly in the 4-5 No. 4 MK I* rifles I have tried here.
I suspect any feeding issues are the result of re-constructed/welded receivers and/or well used barrels. A tip in general would be to take a good dab of Flitz metal polish on a stack of cotton patches or .410ga cotton swab and spin it in the chamber at low RPM using an electric hand drill. Just that simple treatment will clean up a multitude of past sins and give you a very nice chamber wall surface.
And, Yes, raw or sharp inside edges of ANY metal magazine feed lips will tend to engrave on the cartridge case outer walls, adding considerable friction and markedly increasing stripping forces required. A quick treatment with an 800grit or higher stone along the entire inner sheet metal feed lip surfaces will tone down the tendency to engrave.
-TomH
Quick update, brought 60 rounds of wolf and 40 rounds of the MEN stuff from SG with me today, shot two boxes of wolf with no issue then three blown out case heads in a row from the third box. Looks like the extractor ripped the case apart before the case released. Gun still ran fine but after two rounds there was ton of smoke coming from the action so I checked the fired cases. I took it apart quick to make sure something didnt break/move and everyting looked fine. Fired one more single round and it blew out the bottom again. I stopped using the wolfe at that point, the third box was from a new batch I just received. I dont see any lot numbers on the boxes, but the printing on the box is a little different on the newest ones.
I switched the MEN ammo and had no issues with it for the next 40 rounds.
Not sure if I got some 'bad' wolf rounds or maybe the chamber was a getting sticky. I shot 100 rounds in a row through the same barrel with the wolf last time so who knows (always clean it after shooting). I will use the rest of the wolf in my bolt action rifles and go back to brass case in the bren I think. Didnt do any damage to the rifle, most likely the bullet was clear of the barrel when the case failed. Just a lot of soot.. If you look at the pic you can see the rim is on angle from the extractor wrenching the case head out.
The distance between the extractor and the chamber is over twice what I would expect to see in a properly head spaced gun. Have you checked to see if your gun is head spaced off the case and not the bolt stops. I have seen several rewelds that were head spaced off the bolt stops.
To me the picture shows the case was still under pressure when it failed so I would assume either excessive HS or over gassed
My guess is the gun was headspaced with what he calls his “numbered” barrel (the one he is saving).
He says he has three different barrels. One he got from IMA. What are chances of it headspacing the same as his “numbered” barrel?
Some folks think you can stick any barrel in a Bren and it will work. Wouldn’t it be nice if that were true!
I have headspace gauges and check every barrel, every one I fire is in spec. matter of fact the IMA barrel is a little tighter than the others. I have put many through that barrel, both steel and brass, with no issues. Just the one box started having issues, the MEN brass cased ammo finished out the day had no issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent
It was more of a sticky case and extractor ripping the case head off with some pressure in the barrel than a blowout I think.
And no it is not headspaced off the bolt stops. Simple fix was to start using brass cased ammo again :) I am not going to keep trying any more out of that box, they could even be a little bit overloaded as well. I fired the rest of them in my No4 today and the bolt stuck a few times, never ever did that before, who knows. For 2.00 more a box why take a chance..
The gas setting was on #2, the #1 setting wont cycle the action all the way so the gas wasn't cranked up. Another poster in this thread seemed to be having the same problems. I'm not knocking the wolf ammo, it worked fine for quite a while until it didnt :)
kpj53 what HS gauges are you using? whats your HS for the barrel that the blown cases were in? who's version of SA bren are you using (striker,hammer, pirate, historic, did you build it)? I ask this because some builders drill out the gas port which in one case makes setting 1 equal to setting 4
I ask because I really need a supply of good cheap ammo and dont want to get piles of wolf if its going to be trouble in the bren or vickers.
It is a striker, not sure on the exact builder but very nicely done. No the gas regulators were not drilled on any of the barrels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr E
I dont know who makes the HS gauge, its an old one I bought from apex years ago, marked SM .210 .074 No1 so I assume a field.
I also have a disc type no-go that mics at .068 if I remember to double check, right now it will close on the .068 with a little pressure and no way will close on the .074.
I counted the boxes of wolf 303 I have left and it looks like I fired 360 rounds of it through it with no issues except it wouldnt feed the first round sometimes, had to pull the charging handle twice. You can see the rims were digging in the mag and on each other, I polished one mags feed lips and that problem went away as long as I used that mag.
Why it started having issues with that one box I dont know, I brought three 20 rd boxes of wolf and two of the MEN brass cased with me. First two boxes of wolfe worked perfect, I loaded 20 in the mag on the third box and the first two rounds just didnt sound right but still functioned fine. Looked at the two ejected empties and they were both broken, one had the lip bent down in the pic and another just pulled the case head off on an angle with no signs of blowout.
I always keep the disc HS gauge with the gun tools with me so I checked it quick, it was the same as its always been. Decided it was best to use the brass cased MEN and call it a day, which worked perfect.
After a little more looking at the wolf cases there is no doubt they are thin in that area, there is also another piece of metal, primer flash hole it looks like, pressed in there right where they cracked. Its possible it could have fired a little out of battery, or the bullet got pushed in feeding and caused an overpressure. Could have been some overcharged rounds in that box. Could have been a couple bad cases. Could have been something got in the chamber and was sticking the case. The other 18 rounds may have worked just fine. I wasnt going to experiment on a fairly expensive gun that day to see if it would keep happening with the steel cased ammo.
I was happy with the performance of the wolf, especially for the cost, but since I have other bolt rifles to use it with I think I'll use PPU or the MEN brass in the bren from now on. Its not like the wolf blew up the gun or hurt anyone, if I couldnt get PPU or the MEN I would probably try it again.
I realize the thread is old, but thought I would update my recent experience.
I have two semi auto Brens. One by Historic Arms (Mk I) and a Project Gun Mk III. I purchased both PPU and Wolff to try in these rifles. The Mk I had NO ISSUES except I had to switch the regulator to the number 3 position for proper functioning. The Mk I works fine on the number 2 setting with the PPU.
I started out fine with PPU in the MkIII but shot 6 rounds of Wolff in the Mk III and noticed the primers were backing out ever so slightly, so I stopped using them in the Mk III. They backed out enough that if I set the fired cases on the bases, the primer unseating had the cartridge pivot around on the high point. Then, when I went back to the bras cased PPU, after 14 cartridges I had a case separation. I stopped shooting at that point until I talk to Stan at Project Guns. When I retrieved the empty brass of those 14 cases, I noticed at least one other that had a semi-circular crack around the same point of the case that the complete separation occurred (shot #14). There may be others, but they weren't apparent from the exterior.
Seems my Mk III has a head space issue? The Wolff seems slightly weaker due to my experience with the Mk I.