"Cavalry" cup and canteen question

Hi all, please tell me:

1) In book "Manual for nonkomissioned officers and privates of cavalry of the army of the US, 1917",
shows aluminium mess cup Model of 1908. But the cavalryman already It has included canteen, with its own cup.
Why was the need mess cup Model of 1908? Maybe someone can tell me?

Attachment 73576

2) Which soldiers used to "Cover, Canteen, Mounted, M-1910", with hook on the back side of the cover?
If I understand correctly, the cavalry was not used?

Thank you in advance for your response,
Michael

We too were issued a canteen cup that accompanied the canteen and also a coffee cup separately. This is current...at least from the '70's to '08...and for ages we were issued mess tins redundantly and didn't use them for ANYTHING... So, these men being issued that way is no surprise. The canteen cup you can actually cook in and even that coffee cup you can't so much...

Thanks, Jim!
It seemed a little strange at the same time the existence of two cups.

If you allow, a couple of questions:

1) Early american canteens have any official title? If I understand correctly, the "pattern 1858" and "pattern 1862" - this is the name, adopted by collectors and dealers?

2) In book "The U.S. Army in the West, 1870-1880: Uniforms, Weapons, and Equipment" (Douglas C. McChristian), I read, that "in 1872...iron chain was replaced by a brass chain, which was attached to a brass wire loop surrounding the spout".
This actually happened in 1872, or later?

3) What exactly do the letters "I.C." or "X" in some cases the canteens? They are not suitable for use, or when they are excluded from military property?

PS sorry my very bad english :)

The confusion in the manual is that the Ordnance Department often used plates (images) from previous or other manuals that weren't current. The manual referenced was first published in 1905, edited and published again in 1908, and 1917. Individual and horse equipment had gone through some interesting changes as reflected in those printings of the manual, but the illustrations didn't always reflect the current regulations or equipment.

In 1917 when the manual was published two types of horse equipment was in general issue: horse equipments M1904, based on the McClellan saddle, and the Cavalry Board saddle (experimental) M1912. The Board included the canteen M1910, canteen cup M1910, and canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 to be carried in the pommel pockets when mounted and assembled to the belt when dismounted.

The individual canteen and cup for use with the McClellan saddle went through several changes that are difficult to make sense of by referencing the manuals only. In 1904 the regulation canteen was the round sheet steel tin-plated canteen in various details that had been issued since prior to the Civil War. Significant to this story was the web canteen strap, that had been adopted to carry the canteen assembled to the cartridge belt as part of the infantry equipments adopted in 1904. The Army Regulations specified that the cup be carried with the strap laced through the handle and the assembly attached to the saddle. In actual usage the strap was too short to accommodate this method of carrying the cup. As a consequence the cup was changed so that it would conveniently fit into the saddle bags without adding bulk, and the aluminum cup M1908 was designed and adopted. The mounted branches also complained that the snap hook on the web canteen strap was too weak to support the canteen and canteens were being lost. Shortly after the cup was adopted the Ordnance Department modified the triangular loops on the tin canteen to a rectangular form, and simultaneously issued an adjustable leather canteen strap similar to the canteen strap adopted in 1883. So throughout the late 1900s and early 1910s a mix of this equipment could be found in service, and it was impossible for the manuals to illustrate all the variations.

The next event in this story occurred in 1914 when the Cavalry Unit Accountability Equipment Manual (revised October 28, 1914) authorized the issue of the canteen M1910, and canteen cover dismounted M1910, to troops equipped with McClellan saddle, and the Special Orders specified that the the assembly be carried in the saddle bags. Reports from the field in 1915 indicated that the canteen took up too much room in the saddle bags and requested that a method be devised to carry the canteen attached to the saddle. The Cavalry Equipment Board and Rock Island Arsenal in 1915 designed a modification of the canteen cover dismounted M1910 that consisted of assembling web billets to the sides and bottom, reconfiguration of the leather canteen strap, that was then laced through the billets on the canteen cover. RIA was instructed to prepare kits that included web straps, rivets, leather canteen straps, and instructions to be sent to the units for field modification of the canteen covers. This design was was later adopted as canteen cover mounted M1917.

In 1917 when the manual referenced was printed mounted units were authorized to issue any of the equipment items mentioned, and it is likely a mix of the equipment was in use. The manual of course more or less reflected the current regulations and what was being manufactured at Rock Island Arsenal. In 1917 RIA was manufacturing the tin cavalry canteen, leather canteen strap, cup M1908, canteen M1910, canteen cup M1910, canteen cover dismounted M1910, and leather canteen strap for the modification of canteen cover dismounted M1910. Late in 1917 canteen cover mounted M1917 was in production but would not have been included in that printing of the manual.

The canteen cover mounted M1910 was part of the infantry equipment M1910 and was intended for use by soldiers that were mounted using the McClellan horse equipments, such as couriers, and mounted soldiers detailed from other "dismounted" branches such as signals, and engineers.

The use of "pattern 1858" and "pattern 1862" are purely militaria collector use to identify the two basic patterns of sheet steel tin-plated canteens produced in large quantity during the Civil War 1861-65. Both of these pattern years are inaccurate but have come to be accepted nomenclature by collectors.

Regarding the steel chain mentioned, both steel "jack" chain and cotton cord was used on canteens manufactured during the War. When the Infantry equipment Board in 1874 recommended the adjustable web strap, the canteens went through a series of modifications that included replacing the chain or cord with brass Omega or plumber's chain assembled to a loop of brass wire clenched around the spout of the canteen. The modified canteens were additionally covered with duck material in 1876, and the triangular loops were added in 1878. A large quantity of canteens were "re-covered" or "double-covered" in 1898 that the steel jack chain was retained apparently for identification.

"I.C." means inspected and condemned, and "X" basically the same thing, both used to assure that the property was not reintroduced in the supply system as an accountable item.

You're posting questions as I am typing so it appears I'm answering questions before they're posted.

The canteen strap pattern 1883 was assembled to the re-covered canteen pattern 1878, and was not a separate pattern of canteen.

RT Ellis, many thanks for the excellent explanation!

And one more question for cups - do I understand correctly, that the tin and porcelain cups from this topic used in 1917?

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=41642

"in the summer of 1917 for use by the recruits in camp, until sufficient supplies of M1910 equipment could be manufactured"

Attachment 73577

The sheet steel tin-plated cup on the left and the two porcelain-plated cups in the image (the one on top in the middle is a cup M1908) are examples of the cups acquired in 1917-18 for use in the training camps. Each of the chief ordnance officers (who were also the commanders of arsenals) in the Army geographical departments in 1917 were authorized $5000 to purchase mess equipment for issue to troops in the training camps in their departments. For example the commanding officer of Rock Island Arsenal was the chief ordnance officer for the Central Department, and the commanding officer Benicia Arsenal was the chief ordnance officer for the Pacific Department. Each of these chief ordnance officers made separate arrangements for the acquisition of suitable mess equipment, so there was no standardization of model or pattern. Some of the material was contracted and some was acquired by purchase order so most of this equipment was unmarked in any way or illustrated in documents or manuals for identification. The only items known to have been marked are the cups and the round meat cans marked U.S. Some examples of non-standard utensils have been examined that were stamped with typical unit identification and probably represent equipment acquired in this program.

In the group image attached a variety of mess equipment is illustrated, and several soldiers have either tin-plated or porcelain cups of the type acquired in 1917-18. The unidentified individual in the real photo post card displays an interesting variety of commercial mess equipment, including a porcelain-plated cup, the subject of this thread.

Attachment 73578
Attachment 73579

Thank you very much for the detailed, interesting story and excellent illustrations to it!

Could you tell us about the early covers for P1858/1862 canteens and carrying strap for them ?
As they say in many sources "First Army order of 20,000 canteens with covers were made of sky-blue cloth (it is also going to the federal army trousers), which was soon replaced by a dark blue, which in turn replaced the cloth, marching in the army blanket." Is it really so?
( I'm sorry that I ask so many questions, it is because I could not find exactly the right answers to them).

Most of the literature on the standard U.S. Civil War canteens is based on examination of existing canteens, a process that has occurred with many militaria items of equipment that I have found is often misleading after researching documents on the various items. Perhaps one of the most misunderstood area of collecting is U.S. Marine Corps equipment, but that is another story.

References that contribute useful information on Civil war Canteens:

Coates, Earl J. “The Civil War Issue Canteens: Patterns of 1858 and 1862.” Military Collector and Historian, vol. XLXVII no. 3, Fall 1995 : 98-109.
O'Donnell, Mike. "U.S. Army & Militia Canteens 1775-1910." 2008.

Until 1910 the U.S. Army usually used the method of contracting or manufacturing uniforms and equipment based on an accepted pattern or sample that was "sealed" and became the standard pattern. In the case of canteens the standard patterns were developed at Philadelphia Quartermaster Depot (PQD) and sent to the Office of the Quartermaster General (OQMG) for approval and "sealing." One tagged canteen was returned to PQD and one was retained at the OQMG. As far as I know no one has ever found any of the pattern canteens to confirm the details of construction or materials. What is known from the contracts is that the metal part of the canteens were manufactured to the sealed pattern at PQD, the PQD inspected the canteens, and then assembled the covers and straps. The contracts specified the weight of the canteen which apparently assured that the sheet steel tin-plate used in manufacture was in compliance with the pattern.

(After 1872 canteens and other individual field equipment was transferred to the Ordnance Department and the same pattern process was used with Watervliet Arsenal, Leavenworth Arsenal, and Rock Island Arsenal providing the sample materials to the Office of the Chief of Ordnance.)

PQD in 1861 developed a pattern with corrugated front and back panels that was approved by the OQMG and the first contracts were let in July 1861. It is assumed that the other QMC depots that contracted canteens also used standard patterns to demonstrate construction and materials. Before long the contracts started calling for the contractors to complete the canteens with cover and strap. It is noted that in a few contracts the specified canteen was per the contractor's sample submitted. The details of these canteens was not specified but was presumably close enough to the standard pattern to be acceptable.

By 1863 contract production of canteens was proceeding at a large and rapid pace. in some cases the delivery dates of contracts was so soon after the contract was let the contractors must have continued manufacturing canteens and had them on hand anticipating the QMC would purchase them.

The cover assembled by the PQD probably usually resembled the material on the pattern canteen, but the specific material and color is unknown. PQD probably assembled any suitable wool fabric that was available which was likely blue. When complete canteens were contracted the War was well under way and the contractors and the QMC had to accept any suitable material that was available to get the canteens completed and delivered to the depots. Mr. Coates in his article cited above provided some interesting observations regarding the cover materials and it is clear that materials other than wool were accepted. Probably the vast majority of existing original canteens have wool covers that can be described as gray or brown, apparently material that wasn't needed for other applications such as uniforms. I am aware that collectors and reinactors like to believe that some shade of blue wool was the standard color of canteen covers, and may well have been when DQP was assembling the covers, but after the contractors started delivering complete canteens the standard pattern cover material gave way to materials that were available, and blue wool covers occasionally show up. We have to be cognizant of the fact that these canteens may have been re-covered by users, or depots with materials at hand, and were in fact re-covered starting in 1875 with a coarse wool material known as Petersham. My observation is that Petersham was usually gray with some variation in shade.

The standard pattern for the material and color shade assembled to Civil War era canteens may never be known, and the examination of existing samples only useful to a limited extent. I think that what can best be said is that anyone that claims to know the information for a certainty had better be ready to cite some authority for the information.

Thank you very much, I thought that there is any standard covers templates. Unfortunately, neither this magazine "M.С. & H" nor a copy of the article Mr. Coates I was not able to buy or find (I tried to look for). Mike O'Donnell book I recently bought in a US internet bookstore, hoping to get it in the near future. Probably, it would be useful.

Prompt please, in what year there was such a model, with the strap sewn to the rear side of the cover?
Attachment 73591

Quote:

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The use of "pattern 1858" and "pattern 1862" are purely militaria collector use to identify the two basic patterns of sheet steel tin-plated canteens produced in large quantity during the Civil War 1861-65. Both of these pattern years are inaccurate but have come to be accepted nomenclature by collectors.

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I would like to clarify a little bit. It turns out, that all canteens, were issued from 1858 to '1910 (before the M1910) did not have official names?
it's just a "canteen", there are "no patterns" or "models"?

Same thing with cups - in the pictures of the "cavalry manual", they are called "cup, model of 19**". And earlier cups ( P1875, P1900), had an official name or not?

Attachment 73592

For the most part as far as the Army and the users were concerned the variations in the equipment that is so vital to collectors was not relevant and there was no requirement for specific nomenclature other than canteen, cup, meat can, knife, fork, and spoon. The contracts for canteens often used the term "per the pattern" or similar wording and nothing else was written except variations in material. For example one 1862 canteen contract called for 1000 canteens with black enamel straps. The contracts for corrugated canteens usually specified that pattern, but beyond that it was a "canteen."

Here is the official descriptions of the canteen:

Extract from Army Regulations, Revised Regulations for the Army of the United States, 1861, 22:
1578. Canteen--of tin, covered with woolen cloth, of the pattern now issued by the Quartermaster's Department.

Extract from Army Regulations, “Extracts of Revised Army Regulations” The 1863 Laws of War, 206:
1606. Canteen--of tin, covered with woolen cloth, of the pattern now issued by the Quartermaster's Department.

Extract from manual, Quartermaster’s Manual, circa 1864, 41-42:
Canteens--to be made with two semi-spherical plates of XX tin, corrugated, and strongly soldered together at their edges ; 7 5/8 inches in diameter ; 3 tin loops, 1 inch wide and 1/4 inch deep, well and securely soldered on the edge of the canteen, for the carrying strap to pass through; one of these loops fixed to the bottom, and the other two at a distance of 4 inches each, measured from the outside of mouth-piece, or nozzle; mouth-piece cylindrical, of hard white metal, 7/8 inch in diameter, edged over at the top, strongly soldered on to the canteen by a tin apron, which is also soldered on to the canteen; velvet cork, 11/4 inches long, to fit the mouth-piece, and capped on top with tin, through the centre of which extends a galvanized iron wire, 1/8 of an inch in diameter, with a loop at top, 7/8 inch of an inch diameter (inside), secured at the bottom of the cork by a galvanized iron or white metal washer and screw-nut. Attached to the loop of the cork wire and to one of the loops of the canteen, should be a strong piece of cotton or linen twine, made with 4 threads, hard twisted, 20 inches long, and doubled together, to prevent the loss of the cork ; the canteen to be covered with a coarse cheap woolen, or woolen and cotton fabric, and to contain 3 pints. Strap to carry the canteen, to be of leather, with a buckle ; or made of linen or cotton, doubled and seamed on the edges ; or else cotton or linen webbing, 3/4 of an inch wide, and 6 feet long. Weight of canteen, complete, 11 ounces.

Starting in 1872 the Ordnance Department issued a series of manuals in which similar descriptions of equipment was provided that would have been more useful to ordnance arsenals, depots, and contractors than users. But the standard pattern was still the prevailing "specification." Occasionally in correspondence a specific "pattern" or "model" (the terms used interchangeably to mean the same thing) with a year was mentioned, but this was primarily intended to differentiate variations for identification purposes and was not in any way official nomenclature. After the Army started sending aluminum material equipment for field test the term "aluminum" began to be included in the nomenclature, but the model year applied to the issue items sufficed to identify the specific item. What occurred was that if there was a variation in items that was significant to the unit requesting equipment the ordnance manual and paragraph describing the item was referenced in the Order for Supplies (a form used for requesting uniforms and equipment).

Another interesting unofficial nomenclature was the term "old model" that was applied to the previous pattern equipment still in the supply system after a new pattern had been adopted and was available for issue. This was probably part of the realization that more specific nomenclature was needed and lead to the official model designation as part of the nomenclature.

Rock Island Arsenal in 1908 sent for trial 300 aluminum canteens with detachable cover. Apparently because it wasn't possible to attach the usual triangular loops to the canteens the snap hook was attached to the back of the cover with a section of web material. The reports from the units that tested these canteens were not only enthusiastic for the canteens, but also favored the snap hook attached to the cover rather than the separate web canteen strap (p1904) then standard. In 1909 two new patterns of canteens were manufactured that were assigned specific nomenclature: In a previous post here I described a canteen specific to mounted application that went into production in 1909 that featured rectangular loops in place of the standard triangular loops, this canteen had the official nomenclature of "Cavalry canteen." As the result of the favorable comments in the test reports Rock Island Arsenal in 1909 started assembling the snap hook to the back cover and this canteen carried the official nomenclature "Infantry canteen." So in 1909 a unit could order a "canteen" a "Cavalry canteen" or an "Infantry canteen." To complete a Cavalry canteen a "Cavalry canteen strap" was required to be separately requisitioned. Apparently the nomenclature Model 1909 was occasionally used and collectors that have done some research refer to the Infantry canteen by that model designation, but the nomenclatures as noted are what appeared in the price lists and other official documents. Of course these canteens soon became "old models" with the adoption of the infantry equipment M1910.

Thank you very much for your detailed description! Over the past two days, with your help, I learned a lot.

Here are some extracts of manuals that may be useful to an understanding of cavalry equipment in 1913-1917 FYI:

Excellent illustrations! Since "my English" is very bad, the drawings and manuals are very helpful to better understand the written text. Besides, I always very interesting to see the old documents of those times.

Quote:

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..and were in fact re-covered starting in 1875 with a coarse wool material known as Petersham. My observation is that Petersham was usually gray with some variation in shade.

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That is, an early example of this type (with web sling) looks like this?

Attachment 73631

The situation with the program to re-cover canteens in compliance with the Infantry Equipment Board's recommendation and report published in Ordnance Memoranda No. 19, 1874 is not entirely clear. The Board met at Watervliet Arsenal and requested the arsenal to produce two sample canteens. Apparently the sample canteens primarily featured the adjustable web strap with "Chambers" buckle. The replacement of the chain or cord isn't mentioned but definitely a feature of the canteen re-cover program early on. (I use the hyphenated "re-cover" to indicate that new covers were assembled and the canteens weren't recovered as in salvaged from a dump, however in documents the term "recovered" was used to indicate new cover material was cut and assembled) To complicate this situation at least two arsenals were known to have re-covered canteens, and materials were made available to other arsenals, ordnance depots, and units for the re-cover and later double-cover program.

From the samples I have examined it appears that the corrugated canteens were selected to be re-covered.

The first step in this program was the selection of canteens and most were shipped from Frankfort Arsenal where it is assumed the canteens were either stored at the request of the OQMG or transferred there from PQD after responsibility for canteens was transferred to the Ordnance Department. The canteens were stripped of the covers, and the stopper chain or cord removed. Presumably there was an inspection performed at this point to detect any defects.

A section of brass plumber's chain about four inches long was then assembled to the ring pull on the stopper and the other end was assembled to a loop of brass wire that was clenched onto the neck of the canteen. Watervliet Arsenal reported the production of Petersham covers during the 2nd quarter of fiscal year 1875 (October-December 1874). The fiscal year ran from July 1 to June 30. In this case fiscal year 1875 was July 1, 1874 to June 30, 1875). A new Petersham cover was assembled, the web strap was laced through the strap loops and the free end folded and sewn to prevent it from slipping out of the buckle. In some cases the end was folded back and sewn, and probably a little later the corners of the free end were folded in and sewn which formed a pointed end.

The next step in the program was to additionally cover the canteen with duck material. The first double-covered canteens manufactured by the arsenals were reported in the first quarter of fiscal year 1877.

These canteens may be found with the replaced Petersham covers, straps, and cork chain, either re-covered or double covered. Apparently when the arsenals started double-covering the canteens the bottom strap loop was removed, and the web strap was doubled over and sewn at the interior ends so that it would not slip free of the strap loops. Removal of the bottom strap loop made for a tighter assembly of the new covers and a somewhat better appearance. This final pattern of the "double-covered" was manufactured by Watervliet Arsenal in FY 1877, 1880, and 1882. The post 1878 production at Watervliet appears to have been intended for issue to the militia. Rock Island Arsenal produced canteens in 1877, and 1878.

The re-covered or double-covered canteen was replaced in the regular service with the canteen (pattern 1878) and canteen strap (pattern 1878).

Richard, many thanks for the detailed answer and your continued support!

I have a question for "post WW2" "insulated" canteen. In which year began its release? I read, that in 1959, this is true?

Attachment 73769

"Tan" 2 quart canteens - are the "official Army model" or not? Or produced only "tan" covers ( canteens themselves were green)?

Attachment 73770

A brief history of insulated containers FYI. In March 1916 a thermos bottle known as Vak-Kanteen was offered the Ordnance Department by Vacuum Can Company. Samples of the Vac-Kanteen were tested and reported unfavorably, and there was no procurement. The OQMG in 1941 sought to obtain insulated canteens similar in shape to the canteen M1910 for trial during the winter of 1941-42. Landers, Frary & Clark replied that such a canteen could be produced, quoted the price of manufacturing the dies, and stated the canteens could be completed long after the scheduled winter maneuvers. As a consequence no procurement was made. L.F. & C. indicated they were manufacturing an all steel insulated vacuum bottle under the Stanley trade name. This insulated thermos was contracted during WWII by both the Army Air Force, and the Navy Bureau of Aeronautics, for use by aircrews. Post WWII during joint winter warfare exercises in Canada this same insulated bottle in a 1-quart and 2-quart sizes were tested. So the Canteen Insulated that was designed and issued for many years wasn't exactly a new idea.

I have a test example of the Canteen Insulated dated 5-58, and an official report indicated the 1959 date for adoption. The earliest contracts I have researched are dated June 1961. The Canteen Insulated was replaced by the current issue Canteen, Cold Weather CRS (MIL-C-44348(GL) 13Dec88).

As to the 2-quart collapsible canteen, there has been no government procurement of this canteen in any other color than olive green, although I have to report that I have recently examined some odd shade olive green canteens in both Army, and Marine Corps clothing and equipment sales stores. Any other color plastic canteens were manufactured for commercial sales, and won't have the canteen cap M-1 with the connector valve for the protective masks.

Many thanks for answer!

Quote:

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Any other color plastic canteens were manufactured for commercial sales

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I understood, canteens - only olive green. But covers these canteens ( tan color) can be considered as the "army"?

PS When I was looking for information on the canteens, then accidentally I found interesting pictures of Natick Center, apparently it experiments with canteen insulating. In the first photo - probably earlier version of Cold Weather CRS?

Attachment 73786
Attachment 73787
Attachment 73788
Attachment 73789
Attachment 73790

Natick Soldier Systems Center Photographic Collection / Topic: Canteens (Beverage containers) - Digital Commonwealth Search Results

In regards to the canteen cover 2-quart collapsible canteen, there have been many commercial replicas manufactured in all kinds of fabrics and colors. (It is prohibited by law for anyone to apply to any item genuine contract information, although I have examined items that were not made to government specifications or on government contracts intended for commercial sales that had contract information: nomenclature, NSN, contract number, and manufacturer.) I have not seen any replica canteen cover 2-quart collapsible canteen with phony contractor markings. The Defense Supply Agency (DSA)/Defense Logistics agency (DLA) has contracted canteen cover 2-quart collapsible canteen in OG vinyl (1966-67), OG nylon (1966-2009), tan nylon (1982-2004), 5-color desert camouflage (1986), and Woodland pattern camouflage (1986). In addition a contract to supply Saudi Arabia under the Foreign Military Sales program with canteen cover 2-quart collapsible canteen was made in tan and marked S-A-A (1976).

The kidney shaped canteen, canteen cup, and nylon carrier shown in the first image (reddish background) of the images attached to your post #21, are the current issue cold weather items.

Thanks! I thought this is the current issue, without "horizontal seam"?

Attachment 73807
Attachment 73808

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dimmuborgir95

Thanks! I thought this is the current issue, without "horizontal seam"?

Attachment 73807
Attachment 73808

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i didn't notice the seam location on the previous image, you are correct this is the current Canteen Cold Weather CRS with seam at the top.

Perhaps, the sample "seamed" - an test / experimental, etc.

Quote:

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tan nylon (1982-2004), 5-color desert camouflage (1986)

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Richard, tell me please, this "tan" cover is "commercial"? it does not have DLA letters:

Attachment 73872
Attachment 73873

And this one, "5-color", seems "right"?

Attachment 73874
Attachment 73875
Attachment 73876

The NSN on the Tan one returns this:

DLMS™ SUMMARY

National Stock Number 8465-01-118-8175

National Stock Number (NSN) 8465-01-118-8175, or NIIN 011188175, (cover,water canteen) was assigned September 12, 1981 in the Federal Logistics Information System (FLIS). This NIIN is Available for Manual Assignment. This NSN does not replace any other NSNs.

There are no manufacturer part numbers associated to this NSN.

This part number has not been procured by the US Government in over 5 years.

This NSN is unique to one weapons system.

There has been very little demand for this national stock number. The demand for this NSN originated from less than 5 countries. Based on a planned procurement review by the Primary Inventory Control Activity (PICA) on Oct 02, 2011, this NSN's acquisition method was noted as: Suitable for Competitive Acquisition. (Potential sources shall include dealers/distributors.) The Government has unlimited rights to the technical data, and the data package is complete. Valid AMCs: 1 and 2.

This NSN is assigned to Item Name Code (INC) 21364. [AN ITEM USUALLY MADE OF CLOTH, DESIGNED TO FIT AROUND AND HOLD A CANTEEN, WATER.]. This item does not have a nuclear hardened feature or any other critical feature such as tolerance, fit restriction or application. There is no information in the HMIRS; however, the NSN is in an FSC in Table II of Federal Standard 313 and an MSDS may be required by the user. The requirement for an MSDS is dependent on a hazard determination of the supplier or the intended end use of the product. NSN 8465011188175 does not contain precious metals.

This information was last updated on Jun 01, 2016.


PART INFORMATION

Federal Supply Classification
FSC 8465 - Individual Equipment
National Item Identification Number
NIIN 011188175
Codification Country
United States
Item Name Code
INC 21364
Criticality
(X) This item does not have a nuclear hardened feature or any other critical feature such as tolerance, fit restriction or application.
Hazardous Material Indicator Code
(P) There is no information in the HMIRS; however, the NSN is in an FSC in Table II of Federal Standard 313 and an MSDS may be required by the user. The requirement for an MSDS is dependent on a hazard determination of the supplier or the intended end use of the product.

TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS

ATTACHMENT TO BELT METHOD
(CBMG) W/SLIDE KEEPERS
CLOSURE METHOD
(AFPP) LATCH FASTENER
COLOR
(HUES) TAN
DEPARTURE FROM CITED DOCUMENT
(ZZZW) AS MODIFIED BY COLOR
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
(ADZC) WATER REPELLENT
MATERIAL
(MATT) DUCK, NYLON
LINING MATERIAL
(AJNY) FIBER, ACRYLIC
PROCUREMENT GROUP CODE
(PGCD) 21364
SHADE IDENTIFICATION
(AJNJ) 96322
SHADE SOURCE
(AJNG) US ARMY
SHOULDER STRAP
(CGGL) INCLUDED
MATERIAL
(MATL) DUCK, NYLON
UNABLE TO DECODE
(MATL) UNABLE TO DECODE

---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:19 AM ----------

I cannot get a return on the chocolate chip cover, I think it could be because I cannot quite make out the NSN clearly enough. you can try by searching this site's lookup: https://www.iso-group.com/

Darren, many thanks for answer!

I cannot say the NSN 100% verifies the authenticity of the item, I suppose a manufactured fake would have the NSN on it as well, but in this case it does at least let you know that it stands a good chance of being a real, military piece.

Visually it looks like a Tan coloured version of the Green 2 Qt canteen (with covers) we were issued in the Canadian Army before the Camelbak became an issued item. I still have the shoulder strap for mine, I used it as a rifle sling during my tour in Afghanistan because it was lightweight, wide, and quickly clipped on or off the rifle as I required. The ALICE clips were harvested for other kit attachment duties, the canteen was wrapped with gun tape (green duct tape) for additional protection, then carried in a rucksack, and the carrier/cover was thrown away/lost in most circumstances.

Darren, thank you for the clarification.

Both of the imaged canteen cover 2-quart collapsible canteen in the images provided are government procured items.

All of the canteen cover 2-quart collapsible canteen except tan was assigned the same NSN: 8465-00-927-7485. (NSN for the strap is 8465-00-269-0682).

Both the 5-color desert (shown in image) and the Woodland camouflage canteen covers were manufactured on contract DLA 100-86-C-4326 awarded to Medical Supplies Mfg. (Nashua, NH) 16June86. with an indeterminate completion date, for $720,000.00. It is unknown how these canteen covers were separated for issue in the supply system, however both were manufactured part of the trial Integrated Individual Fighting System LBE, so presumably all were controlled by the test board.

The tan cover was manufactured by Unicor (Federal Prison Industries, Ray Brook, NY), procured by the Supply Procurement Office (SPO) of DLA, contract SPO 100-04-D-4202 awarded 8Mar2004, completion date 2May2005, $695,898.00.

Thanks, Richard! In this text, we are talking about a this cover, Safariland production ?

Attachment 73880
Attachment 73881
Attachment 73882

"WOODLAND

NSN 8415-01-478-0270, 8415014780270
COVER,CANT,2QT,WDL

National Stock Number 8415-01-478-0270

National Stock Number (NSN) 8415-01-478-0270, or NIIN 014780270, (cover,cant,2qt,wdl) was assigned August 28, 2000 in the Federal Logistics Information System (FLIS). This NSN does not replace any other NSNs.

There is only one manufacturer part number associated with this NSN. None of the associated part number(s) are considered obsolete. The manufacturer part numbers were originally supplied by one supplier. Today, one supplier is listed as an Active supplier for this NSN. Of the active suppliers, only one supplier is deemed design controlled or valid supply parts.

This part number has not been procured by the US Government in over 5 years.

This NSN is assigned to Item Name Code (INC) 77777. There is no information in the HMIRS; however, the NSN is in an FSC in Table II of Federal Standard 313 and an MSDS may be required by the user. The requirement for an MSDS is dependent on a hazard determination of the supplier or the intended end use of the product. NSN 8415014780270 does not contain precious metals.

This information was last updated on Jun 01, 2016".

National Stock Number NSN 8415-01-478-0270, 8415014780270

The canteen carrier 2-quart collapsible canteen in your post #32 is not the same canteen cover 2-quart collapsible canteen I'm referring to in your post #26. Canteen cover 2-quart collapsible canteen (Battle Dress Uniform Woodland pattern, and 5-color desert camouflage) and canteen cover LC-2 (BDU Woodland pattern camouflage) were manufactured in the 1980s as components of the Integrated Infantry Fighting System, which had as the primary objective to reduce the radar signature of the individual on the battlefield. With passive thermal imaging and infrared imaging on the battlefield radar signature was a minor concern to detection.

The canteen carrier 2-quart collapsible canteen in post #32 is a component of the Modular Lightweight Load-Carrying Equipment (MOLLE), and has been manufactured in Woodland, ACU, Coyote, Multi-cam and probably other camouflage patterns, all of which were assigned separate NSNs. The materials used in the manufacture is described as textured nylon duck, AKA Gore-Tex.

Specialty Defense Systems, Dunmore, Pa. aka The Specialty Group, Inc. (acquired in 2007 by BAE Systems) was a prime developer of MOLLE.

Yes, thanks, indeed, I was inattentive, and I did not pay attention to the method of fixing.

Quote:

---

and canteen cover LC-2 (BDU Woodland pattern camouflage) were manufactured in the 1980s as components of the Integrated Infantry Fighting System,

---

You mean this cover?

Attachment 74058
Attachment 74059

The example in your images is a canteen cover LC-2 (IIFS) that was apparently sub-contracted to Turner Thurston as the contractor was S&S Garment Mfg. Co. contract DLA100-82-C-4355 awarded Jun82 completed Mar83 for $68,000. The markings on this canteen cover extraordinarily readable because the black portions of the camouflage often obscure the markings.

One of the co-authors of the book "American Web Equipment 1967-1991" has stated on another militaria forum that canteen cover LC-2 was never procured by DLA in any color other than olive green and tan, so according to him this cover wasn't manufactured for the government. If he is correct then your cover and the covers manufactured by S&S Mfg Co. (contract DLA100-88-C-4250), and Nordac Mfg. Corp. (contract DLA100-79-C-3031) are replicas with verifiable contract information, but it appears he needs to do more research.

FYI there are replica canteen covers sold commercially that may be taken as genuine government contract equipment because of the markings:
Stansport marked EASTERN CANVAS PRODUCTS, INC. \ DSA 100-74-C-1830.
Powell Military Supply marked POWELL MILITARY SUPPLY INC. \ DSA 100 PM-C6481 (phony contract number derived from the company initials and their phone number).
Truspec Mills marked TRUSPEC MILLS CO. \ DLA 100-92-C-1334.

Quote:

---

One of the co-authors of the book "American Web Equipment 1967-1991" has stated on another militaria forum that canteen cover LC-2 was never procured by DLA in any color other than olive green and tan,

---

Yes, I have read this theme in another forum, and therefore I wanted to know your opinion. In various forums, there are many opinions about the camouflage covers, so it's quite confusing for a "beginner".
Here is this text, if anyone interested to read:

Quote:

---

" Over the years, on this forum and others, a debate has raged as to whether or not the nylon water canteen cover has been “officially” contracted to be manufactured in something other than OG-106 nylon duck. Simply put: whether it is ERDL, woodland, 3-color desert, 6-color desert, black, "desert tan”, Flecktarn, ACU, MARPAT, etc., there has been no other color (besides OG-106) contracted for manufacture for use by the United States Government. It is a pretty sure bet that whatever color it is, it was manufactured for the commercial market.

In Gordon Rottman's 1989 book U.S. Army Combat Equipments 1910-88, the author (in his section detailing the Integrated Individual Fighting System (IIFS) development) states "Woodlands-pattern first aid pouch and canteen covers of the same design as the ALICE versions, are attached to the belt..." Some individuals have held this statement as gospel. But what I quoted is all that appears in the book concerning the matter…that is all there is! Rottman offers no further information in the book, nor a source for the information that he wrote (so that the information could be fact-checked). During my research, I (among numerous others) have found numerous errors with this book (and not just this book by Rottman, there are other works of his that have been called into question). Further, when researching the creation and development of the IIFS (for my book), I found absolutely no evidence from Natick Laboratories that a woodland camouflage pattern first aid pouch or water canteen cover were ever trialed with the system. I went as far as asking Greg Lowe (since his company was provided samples of all the trial IIFS material up until 1984 for review), when I interviewed him for the book, if he ever saw the items Rottman spoke of. Lowe’s response was that only the IIFS trial TLBV and the FPLIF had been produced in woodland camouflage pattern".

---

Quote:

---

FYI there are replica canteen covers sold commercially that may be taken as genuine government contract equipment because of the markings:
Stansport marked EASTERN CANVAS PRODUCTS, INC. \ DSA 100-74-C-1830.
Powell Military Supply marked POWELL MILITARY SUPPLY INC. \ DSA 100 PM-C6481 (phony contract number derived from the company initials and their phone number).
Truspec Mills marked TRUSPEC MILLS CO. \ DLA 100-92-C-1334.

---

Thanks Richard, it is necessary and useful information!
If possible, could you tell us about the differences canteen pouches MOLLE and MOLLE-II? At the internet forums basically only talks and fotos about MOLLE-II, and I do not understand how they differ.

MOLLE-II

Quote:

---

MOLLE II Equipment

"Field user feedback on the original MOLLE led to modified designs to some of the MOLLE components. With these changes, MOLLE became MOLLE II. Specific changes included:
********
********
MOLLE II Pouch, Canteen Carrier/Utility was introduced (NSN 8465-01-484-0450)"

---

Attachment 74086
Attachment 74088
Attachment 74087

How does "MOLLE" cover/pouch? I found the photo on the web under the name "SPEAR ELCS by Safariland".

Attachment 74083
Attachment 74082

One quart canteen cover on this photo is "standard" MOLLE, or is it only a exclusive model Safariland?

Attachment 74085
Attachment 74084

Yes, I understand, that I ask a lot of questions. The fact is that in most forums I was not able to find a really precise answer to some questions ( and I was very interested in the history of all american canteens and covers for them, from the Civil War to the present day). In many things I was able to deal exclusively with the help of Richard T. Ellis and his themes, for which he thanks a lot!

Now I'm trying to understand the models of covers for USMC canteens.

1) Maybe someone knows, what the official name of the "first models" USMC covers for canteen M1910?
In American forums is usually called "Pattern 1912", is really correct, or is it more of a "professional collectors/dealers slang"? After all, if I understand correctly, the DQP began issuing these covers only since 1914?

2) Name the following model cover - M1941, It is correct? They really started to produce in 1941?

3) "Funnel hole" in covers bottom, ( and "cross-flap" model cover) It appeared in 1943?


I will be very grateful, if someone takes the time to answer me.

Best regards, Michael

The Marine Corps didn't usually have their own nomenclature for field mess equipment that included a specific model, but generally carried a generic nomenclature and Marines were issued any pattern equipment that fit that nomenclature. When ordering equipment from the Army the Marine Corps did usually use the Army nomenclature and model identification, and the Army nomenclature was occasionally used in correspondence. I invite your attention to the attachment letter in which there is a mix of Army and Marine Corps nomenclatures used apparently for clarity.

Attachment 74647

The Marines first acquired canteen M1910, canteen cover (dismounted) M1910, and canteen cup M1910 from the Army Ordnance Department in 1912, and was included in the Marine Uniform Regulations of 1912. The equipment listed and illustrated in the 1912 Regulations are often referred to by collectors as model or pattern 1912, but were not identified as such in the regulations or equipment lists. The Philadelphia Quartermaster Depot (DQP) in 1913 started manufacturing an aluminum canteen, aluminum canteen cup, and and in 1914 canteen cover similar to the patterns then in production at Rock Island Arsenal. DQP discontinued manufacture of canteens and canteen cups circa 1930, but continued to manufacture canteen covers. The DQP canteen cover was initially identical to canteen cover M1910 except the snap fasteners featured the uniform button (eagle and anchor) design. DQP moved the belt hook to near the top of the back of the canteen cover circa 1915. In 1916 or '17 the material was changed to olive drab and in 1917 the Carr socket and stud fastener (LTD) replaced the the "eagle cap" fastener. The next most significant change was the back body was reinforced with stitching circa 1918.

In 1940 the USMC started experimenting with packs to replace the pack (known to collectors as model or pattern 1912) then in use similar to haversack M1910, and in 1941 ordered a pack board to be assembled at Quantico. The board tried various designs. but finally developed a two pack system that was intended to provide a transport pack and a combat pack which was sent for field trial in September 1941, and generally referred to by collectors as model or pattern 1941, as part of the "pack system M1941" adopted in December 1941. As part of this pack assembly the board also designed a canteen cover that the wool insulation was deleted. The canteen cover is often referred to by collectors as pattern or model 1941, but this was not official nomenclature. The early canteen covers (p1941) were assembled with socket and stud (LTD) Type 1 fasteners, and changed to Type 2 fasteners in 1942-44.

Attachment 74648

The Marine Corps Equipment Board in 1943 recommended for adoption an "improved" canteen cover that featured extended flaps and the belt hook was moved back to the center of the body. There was no explanation for the changes although it was mentioned in the recommendation for the funnel hole the canteen cover was developed as the result of experience in the Guadalcanal Campaign. Shortly after adoption of the "improved" canteen cover it was recommended that the canteen cover be fitted with a funnel hole in the bottom to expedite filling the canteen from the 5-gallon Expeditionary Water Can. The pattern 1941 and improved canteen covers, both of which were manufactured contemporaneously through 1944, were provided with funnel openings probably on the basis of 50% of production at DQP.

Attachment 74649
Attachment 74650

Richard, thank you very much for the detailed explanation and for the very interesting documents. Now, thanks to you, many nuances become apparent to me!

I have question - belt hook on the all covers of USMC really made entirely of iron (not brass)?

And, if possible, please tell me about the "post-war" covers USMC, and at what time they stopped to produce and use? Perhaps, with the advent of plastic canteen?
I saw on one EBAY, and the forums green covers, marked as "Collette MFG 1952" , with USMC marking.

Attachment 74686
Attachment 74685


Best regards, Michael

With the exception of the very early canteen covers manufactured at DQP a distinctively different double belt hook was manufactured and assembled to field equipment. The hook was usually made of steel wire that was "browned" black, and it appears during WWII Parkerized, although it was possible to produce browning with a lusterless finish and that may be the process used. Brass wire double belt hooks are occasionally observed, and what appears to be nickle-plated steel hooks have been examined that it appears were sometimes assembled during salvage repair.

I should have mentioned previously that the "improved" canteen cover continued to be manufactured by DQP in 1945. The various patterns of canteen covers were manufactured in sufficient quantities that some were still in use in the early 1960s.

During WWII the supply systems of the Army and Marine Corps was consolidated, apparently because the Navy that transported all classes of supply wanted to reduce the number of items by type and wasn't interested in sorting out Army and Marine Corps equipment that was to them the same, i.e. a canteen cover in any pattern was a canteen cover. Besides the Army and Marine Corps equipment sent from supply functions in the U.S., Australian companies were contracted to manufacture uniforms and equipment, and canteen covers was among the equipment items manufactured locally. How this impacted on the issue of equipment in theater to soldiers and marines isn't clear but it apparently occasionally occurred that troops received what was available for issue.

The canteen covers manufactured on a Marine Corps contract by Collette Mfg. Co., Amsterdam, N.Y. (manufactured canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 in 1942, 1944-45, 1951-52, 1956-57, canteen cover (pattern 1945 w/shoulder strap) 1945, and canteen cover M1956.) and marked "U.S.M.C." were manufactured in every detail to Army QMC Specification MIL-C-1725 22Nov49, and other than the marking the covers were not unique to the Marine Corps.

The consolidation of the supply systems that started during WWII was formalized circa 1956, and continued with the establishment of the Department of Defense, Defense Agency (DA) 1953-61, Defense Supply Agency (DSA) 1962-77, and Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) 1978-93, partly because of the commitment to NATO. Since the demise of the Soviet "threat" for some inexplicable reason the armed forces have all been allowed to design uniforms and equipment unique to their "requirements" which may or may not be required for anything other than identity. Keeping abreast to the developments is a challenging task as in the case of load bearing equipment several industrial concerns have developed equipment intended to generate sales, and a rather unusual system in which equipment can be purchased by units about to deploy to a combat assignment from any manufacturer that has been accepted by the General Services Administration (GSA). This has apparently been a useful method for units to acquire equipment that meets operational requirements, and for a militaria collector provides an interesting (bewildering might be a better word) choice of material culture equipment to collect.

Richard, Thank you for your detailed and in-depth response, I read your text with great interest, as a "fascinating book".

I do not quite understand, what a cover is meant?

Quote:

---

canteen cover (pattern 1945 w/shoulder strap)

---

The referenced canteen cover that I call "canteen cover M1910 (pattern 1945)" for identification, is only known from examples that have been examined. No specific documentation has been found in research, and the pattern doesn't appear in any supply catalogs or equipment lists that I have researched.

The canteen cover is a modified canteen cover (dismounted) M1910, the double belt hook was eliminated and three web loops added at the sides and bottom, similar to canteen cover (mounted) M1917. An adjustable web shoulder strap 66 inches long x 5/8 inch wide, with standard two-bar buckle was assembled through the web loops. The canteen cover (p45) was manufactured by Collette Mfg. Co., Airtress Midland Corp., Decatur Tent & Awning Co., and Alltex Products, Inc. in 1945. This canteen cover was probably intended for use by assault troops in the invasion of Japan scheduled for November 1945, and never issued.

Attachment 74731Attachment 74730

Another modified canteen cover(dismounted) M1910 was manufactured specifically for use in escape, evasion and survival. The body was extended and a false bottom was intended to conceal the survival material in the event of capture. The theory apparently being that the captures would allow the soldier to retain the canteen and cover and not notice the extra length of the canteen cover. Examples of this canteen cover are marked "J.Q.M.D. \ 1944". This canteen cover was apparently an initiative of the Army Air Force for issue to flight crews. This same cover may also be found with the markings "J.Q.M.D. \ EX-45-1" which was apparently manufactured to accommodate a larger capacity one-piece canteen that was sent for trial in 1946.

The only documentation I have found was a status report of JQMD Project "R 161-44 - Cover, Canteen, M-1944" that was probably one of these modified canteen covers, but there is no description of the canteen cover or purpose. This information noted for future research.

Richard many thanks for your reply, I was very interested to learn about these canteens!

Richard, could you tell in what years in the "army" M1910 cover buttons have been replaced by LTD-fasteners?
I know, that these were the first -

Attachment 74777

next - "Rimless Eagle Snap" without a border around the edges;
"Rimmed Eagle Snap", with border;
and "Lift-the-Dot"

Maybe you can tell, in what years were the changes?

The fasteners assembled to military equipment has become somewhat of a militaria collector hot topic partially because of the mania over “repop” or “fake” equipment. This reply will be limited to the use of fasteners assembled to canteen cover (dismounted) M1910.

Definition of terms:

Snap fastener - metal devise in two parts that provides a means to quickly join and separate component parts of material items. The “snap” is derived from the sound that is made as the parts are joined or separated. Two general types of separable fasteners were glove fasteners, and socket and stud fasteners.

Glove fastener - A type of separable fastener, that was generally used to assemble the necessarily open part of the glove at the wrist, and was easy to fasten and unfasten with gloved hands. Glove fasteners held together by friction, the “female” part of the fastener usually had a cluster of moveable clasps that held the “male” section securely until forced apart.

Socket and stud fastener - A type of fastener that is similar to a glove fastener, in which the socket was provided with wire clasps that engaged a grove in the stud, and held the separable parts by friction until forced to separate.

Curtain fastener or carriage curtain fastener - A type of fastener generally applied to the material curtain of carriages and early motor vehicles, that could be closed in inclement weather or opened in fair. The fastener was in two parts that consisted of a grommet and a stud that was provided with a lock or turn key that rotated to either secure the parts together, or allow the parts to separate. In military correspondence this fastener was referred to as the “turn button and grommet” fastener.

History of separable fasteners assembled to canteen carriers - Rock Island Arsenal in 1907 sent for field trial aluminum canteens that featured “covers” or carriers that could be removed from the canteens for cleaning purposes. Two closure systems were incorporated, one laced with cord, and the other with small glove type fasteners. (Glove fasteners were assembled to pocket cartridge belts starting in 1904.) The Infantry Equipment Board in 1910 recommended the canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 with curtain fasteners.

The Commanding Officer of Rock Island Arsenal in April 1911 received permission from the Chief of Ordnance to substitute the stud and socket fastener patented by Carr Fastener Company. The exterior of the stud was embossed with the uniform button design that was adopted with the Army Uniform regulation of 1902. The button featured the “National” emblem that consisted of an eagle holding an olive branch and arrows. (This design had also been applied to the earlier glove fasteners assembled to cartridge belts.) This fastener was referred to as a “Carr fastener” or “eagle cap” fastener in correspondence.

The Army uniform regulation of 1912 prescribed a revised button design that consisted of the National Emblem, with back ground of horizontal lines or grooves, and a raised or ridged edge. The design on the “eagle cap” was soon revised to reflect the change in the button design. The functioning of the “eagle cap” stud and socket fasteners was unsatisfactory and Rock Island Arsenal in 1915 sent small lots of canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 with three different fastener designs for field trial.

As the result of the report of field test the Commanding Officer Rock Island Arsenal in July 1916 received permission from the Chief of Ordnance to substitute the socket and stud “Carr Military Lift-The-Dot Fasteners” on canteen cover (dismounted) M1910.

Where/how in the lineage does the pictured(#44) carrier fit?

Richard, thank you for an interesting explanation. I do not quite understand one point:

Quote:

---

The Commanding Officer of Rock Island Arsenal in April 1911 received permission from the Chief of Ordnance to substitute the stud and socket fastener patented by Carr Fastener Company.

---

That is to say that since 1911, these buttons ("Rimless Eagle Snap" ) are installed first on this type of cover?( with a "square flaps")? Or is the only earliest version of the cover?

Attachment 74812

I'm not quite clear exactly when there was a "transition" to the next type of cover (it, too, with "Rimless Eagle Snap" buttons):

Attachment 74813

The construction and materials used for canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 wasn't mentioned in any of the correspondence I have researched. Here is a list of the progression of the item as I understand it, mostly from examination of existing examples, a few photographic images, drawings and specifications:

1. OD duck material, rounded flaps, body made in front, back and bottom sections - seams on both sides, curtain fasteners, bronzed "half hard" wire double hook with metal tube, stitching on front quilted pattern and ended about 2 inches from bottom with horizontal stitching, unmarked. (this is believed to be the canteen carrier provided with the sheet steel tin-plated canteens and cups the Infantry Equipment Board sent for trial in 1909.)

2. Same as 1 except flaps squared off, interior flap ends reinforced with leather, stitching on front vertical rows ended 2 inches from bottom, stenciled U.S. (1910-1911.)

3. Same as 2 except body made of one piece seam on right side, Carr stud and socket "eagle cap" fasteners (socket marked "PAT.OCT.3-05 \ PAT.PEND." or unmarked. There is no record of this patent granted by the U.S. Patent Office), also made in darker shade of OD and softer duck material (1911-12.)

4. Same as 3 except flaps rounded, body seam at center back, web material added to flap edges, interior flap ends reinforced with duck material - leather eliminated, olive green duck material, stitching entire front of body. (Illustrated in photograph included in the Cavalry Equipment Board report April 1912.)

5. Same as 4 except double belt hook changed to thicker brass wire (metal tube eliminated), billet of heavier web material, printed U.S. or "without "U.S." (for state militias to mark state identification). (circa 1912-16)

6. Same as 5 except “Carr Military Lift-The-Dot Fasteners” socket and stud fasteners. (July 1916)

7. Same as 6 except body made slightly larger, olive drab duck material. (1917-18, 1940-42)

8. Same as 7 except body seam at right side, minor variations in color of duck material. (1941-43)

9. Same as 8 except variations in material and construction manufactured in U.K. and Australia (1943-45)

10. Same as 8 except section of web material assembled over double belt hook billet, olive green duck material (1944-46, 1951-52, 1956-57, 1962-64)

Comments:

Olive green (OG) was adopted as the standard color for web equipment in 1907, but because of problems obtaining suitable dyes olive drab (OD) continued in use until 1909 when OG materials became available. There is no explanation in documents why the material used for canteen covers continued to be OD when all the other components of the infantry equipment M1910 was manufactured with OG materials. It may have just been a matter of using up materials on hand. The dyes used for OG materials came from Germany and was no longer available after the U.S. declaration of war in April 1917, and the materials used in the manufacture of web equipment reverted to OD.

In the period circa 1890-1926 Mills Woven Cartridge Belt Co. marketed woven web field equipment, most of which was identical to the items manufactured by Rock Island Arsenal, and in some cases equipment designed by Mills, especially woven web versions of leather equipment. Mills worked closely with the Ordnance Department to develop woven equipment, and received contracts for equipment but apparently never made canteen covers on contract. Mills found new markets for woven web field equipment in Europe and the U.K. based Mills Equipment Co. was associated with Mills Woven Cartridge Belt Co. Most MWCB Co. items were marked with "MILLS" inside a cartridge logo.

A steel double belt hook was occasionally substituted for brass.

Post WWII several foreign military organizations were reequipped with U.S. equipment, and produced close copies of canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 (pattern 1944). U.S. vendors had copies of canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 manufactured, with generally inferior materials, mostly in Asian countries for sales to campers. The reenactor market has created a demand for fairly accurate replica equipment that in some cases is very close to the originals in construction and material, and in some cases marked with phony manufacturer names and year. An incredible number of these replica canteen covers have been manufactured and marketed mostly through websites and online auctions. There is apparently at least 16 different vendors of replica canteen covers.

Richard, I am very grateful to you for your amazing knowledge that you generously share with us. I did not know that this cover had many varieties. I have a picture of the "first cover"( with rounded flaps and curtain fasteners), and up to that point it was not clear what this model. Now I know, thanks!

Quote:

---

this is believed to be the canteen carrier provided with the sheet steel tin-plated canteens and cups the Infantry Equipment Board sent for trial in 1909

---

Perhaps this picture shows exactly this interesting canteen?

Attachment 74835

Richard, if possible, could you tell about the appearance and field trials "early" M1910 canteens? How correct is this information, placed on most forums?

Quote:

---

...In 1909, the army supply department of the United States introduced a new set of field equipment, which included a "quart" canteen, complete with cup and cover fabric. As a result, preliminary field test steel tinned ( Rock Island arsenal production) and aluminum (AGM company production ) canteens samples on arms was adopted aluminum canteen manufactured by AGM.

As the technology of production of aluminum canteens with "seamless" housing has been patented and demanded royalties for the use of a patent , in 1912 in Rock Island arsenal has developed its own, more simple technology, on which the canteen housing welded from two halves. Also, screw cap, and provides greater incision was changed.

---

It would be very interesting to learn about the changes, taking place with the "screw caps" of this canteen (they have been changed in some years).

Attachment 74836

Quote:

---

1) Early AGM production
2) Early R.I.A. production
3) R.I.A., since 1912
4) R.I.A., since 1914

---

This is correct?

This image is one of a set that was taken during the Infantry Equipment Board test in 1909 by a battalion of the 10th U.S. Infantry, of what would become the Infantry Equipment M1910. The canteen and canteen cup in this image were examples of the sheet steel tin-plated items manufactured by RIA for the field test. Apparently the Quartermaster Corps got in on this field test to try out wool wrap puttees, because other images of the test equipment show the soldiers wearing them. (BTW the image posted here was apparently lifted from an online auction where the seller is trying to profit from the sale of digital prints of images that are public domain and available online for down loading.)

Perhaps this picture shows exactly this interesting canteen?

Attachment 74835

The cap in the first image was manufactured by Aluminum Goods Manufacturing Co. and assembled to all production 1910-1913. The second image is the canteen cap manufactured by RIA, and was milled from solid aluminum rod. The third image illustrates the canteen cap manufactured by RIA in 1913-14, pressed from sheet aluminum, that reduced the cost of manufacture. The fourth image was the cap standardized in 1914, although I've not come across any information why the cap was domed.

Attachment 74836

In general this information is correct but also has some misinformation in it. The General Staff of the U.S. Army ordered a board of infantry officers to assemble at RIA that was tasked with improving the field equipment of dismounted soldiers. The Infantry Equipment Board, which was sort of a semi-permanent board that was ordered to meet when required, examined equipment then in use, the developments in equipment, and several sets of equipment that had been requested from foreign countries. The nested canteen and cup was not original to the Board, and the Ordnance Department had been testing aluminum field equipment since 1894. The Board designed the canteen and cup and requested that RIA obtain examples for field test from Aluminum Co. of America. Apparently ACA could not produce the canteens and cups requested, and RIA manufactured the canteens and cups from sheet steel tin-plated. The report of the test was favorable to the design and the Board recommended the aluminum canteen and canteen cup as a component of the Infantry Equipment M1910.

The Infantry Equipment Board's recommendations for the infantry equipment was approved in 1910, and RIA was ordered by the Chief of Ordnance to manufacture 25,000 sets. Aluminum Company of America was contracted to manufacture the canteen M1910, and canteen cup M1910 (these items were usually manufactured as a set). ACA failed to deliver on the contract, and Aluminum Goods Manufacturing Co. was contracted to manufacture the sets. AGM Co. had developed "seamless aluminum vessels" which was manufactured by a well known process referred to as "spinning." The manufacture of the canteen required skilled workers and was a slow laborious process, and therefore expensive. Delivery of the canteens and cups by AGM Co. was delayed until late 1910, which of course held up completion of the sets of Infantry Equipment M1910. AGM Co. eventually delivered about 1/4 million canteen and canteen cup sets 1910-13.

The Army desired that the Ordnance Department obtain the necessary knowledge, equipment, and workers to manufacture the canteen M1910, at Rock Island Arsenal, to reduce the cost of manufacture and improve speed of production. RIA made some preliminary attempts at "spinning" aluminum, but didn't have the necessary equipment, and found the process difficult and laborious. (No mention was made of any issues with patents or payment of royalties) At the same time RIA collected information on welding aluminum and by late 1911 had developed satisfactory technique and worker skills to manufacture aluminum canteens from sheet aluminum. By 1913 RIA was reporting that the canteen and cup sets was about half the cost of the sets contracted from Aluminum Goods Manufacturing Co. Rock Island Arsenal continued to manufacture the canteen and cup sets until 1917 when it was necessary to contract industry to manufacture much of the equipment in the quantities required by the American Expeditionary Force.

Richard, many thanks for your clarification. I have nowhere else could not find such accurate information on any site or books.

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(BTW the image posted here was apparently lifted from an online auction where the seller is trying to profit from the sale of digital prints of images that are public domain and available online for down loading.)

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Yes, when I was looking photos of the Civil War soldiers with a canteens in the Library of Congress website, then later I saw the same picture sold at Ebay.

Richard, EX-54 covers have "official model name"? ( for example, as in most models - "Cover, Canteen Ex-54"), or they were considered to be experimental, and did not have a "name"?

Attachment 74911
Attachment 74910

I was photographing canteen covers and in the process took images of the examples of the canteen covers converted to mounted use at hand, as was mentioned in the original posts on this thread. I reviewed “Manual for Non-commissioned Officers and Privates of Cavalry of the Army of the Untied States” edition of 1917 and my own research into the Ordnance Department documents related to this matter.

To review the original question was why two cups were issued, and the discussion in subsequent posts explained at least part of the situation. The two images provided in the manual, which generated the question, illustrate different equipment authorizations. The photo titled “Equipment Arranged for Inspection” shows the 1914 equipment authorization of canteen M1910, canteen cover M1910, and cup (aluminum) M1908. The photo titled “McClellan Saddle, Full Pack Off Side” illustrates the equipment authorized in 1916, canteen M1910, canteen cup M1910, and canteen cover (dismounted) modified for use on McClellan saddle.

The equipment lists on pages 30-31in the manual reflects the 1914 authorization: the sub-notes state, “*In lieu of these the canteen, model of 1910, with canteen cover , dismounted, may be issued.” This is what was illustrated in the image titled “Equipment Arranged for Inspection.”

On pages 34-35 the instructions for packing the saddle states: “Canteen snapped into off cantle ring, canteen strap passing through the handle of the cup, except the cup model 1910, which is fitted over the bottom of the canteen, model 1910, inside the cover.” The canteen M1910, carried in the canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 modified fur use on McClellan saddle, is shown in the image. No cup is shown so it can be assumed the cup issued was canteen cup M1910, and not cup (aluminum) M1908.

According to the manual a cavalry soldier in 1917 could have been issued a canteen M1910, canteen cover (dismounted) M1910, and cup (aluminum) M1908, all to be carried in the saddle bags. Or canteen M1910, canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 modified for use on McClellan saddle, and cup (aluminum M1908 or canteen cup M1910.

As was previously reported the complaints from the using units in 1915 were that the canteen M1910, and canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 authorized in 1914, and by regulations to be carried in the saddle bags, was taking up too much room needed for other things in the saddle bags. The Cavalry Board and Ordnance Department in 1916 designed a modification of the canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 that consisted of riveting leather loops to the cover, and running a re-configured leather cavalry canteen strap. This canteen cover was officially known as canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 modified for use on McClellan saddle. The Chief of Ordnance ordered RIA to prepare instructions and cavalry canteen straps for issue to units for modifying the canteen covers (dismounted) M1910 by unit artificers. Rock Island Arsenal in 1916 manufactured leather canteen straps specifically for this program, and this same strap was incorporated into the specifications for canteen cover (mounted) m1917.

In practice the modifications of the canteen covers didn’t exactly conform to the instructions, although the results were what was required to attach the canteen and canteen cover to the saddle.

Illustration A shows a canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 that was modified per the instructions with leather loops riveted to the sides and bottom. The double belt hook was removed by cutting away the loop of the web billet. The leather strap and snap hook were salvaged from other horse equipment, and the strap was lapped and sewn so no length adjustment was provided.

Illustration B shows a canteen cover that was apparently originally a canteen cover (mounted) M1910 that was modified per the instruction with the assembly of leather loops riveted to the sides and bottom, and removal of the snap hook (and subsequent re-assembly of a snap hook). The markings on this canteen cover were for 2nd Cavalry Regiment, Troop A, soldier’s number 32.

Illustration C shows a canteen cover modified from a canteen cover (dismounted) M1910 manufactured in early 1918, with lift the dot snap fasteners. The canteen cover was modified per the instructions with leather loops riveted to the sides and bottom. The double belt hook and web billet were removed. The adjustable leather strap assembled to this canteen cover is an example of the straps manufactured by RIA specifically for the modification program.

Richard, many thanks for your detailed explanations! I am very grateful to you for help.