Gauge, inspectors, headspace, 7.62 mm rifle

Its taken me years to finally get my hands on one of these monsters, but now I have no idea how it was used on the L1A1 rifle.

GAUGE, INSPECTORS, HEADSPACE, 7.62 MM RIFLE M.L.
SM 104A
5220-99-960-6621

Has anyone use one of these and if so, how was it used... am I missing a part? or does it work with standard headspace gauges? Anyone have a EMER reference for its use?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...onviwjfq-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...t6micptz-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ms93swrb-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e9vridd7-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2ekeeqto-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ylq4ft7g-1.jpg

Very nice, can't wait to hear from Peter and the others what the poop on this is...

Just to show the scale of the gauge.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...i0y3uv8l-1.jpg

If I recall correctly, there should also be a 'Plug' gauge that sits in the cartridge chamber. When you fit this gauge in the carrier rails in the receiver. It butts up against the 'Plug' & the locking shoulder.

I think this was used for locking shoulder confirmation sizing for Headspacing? As 'Normal' Headspacing was enacted with a 'Go' & 'No Go' pair of gauges.

I recall being taught how to use one of these. But it was a VERY long time ago! & I never used one subsequently in Service. Just the Go/ No Go Gauges, as was the norm.

Peter will I'm Sure, be able to confirm exactly the usage level of Scaling. ;)

Ahhhhhhh that might explain this gauge I have on one of my lists

1005-99-960-6608
GAUGE, inspectors, headspace, 7.62 mm. rifle, Mk. 2

This might be the gauge used with the other gauge.

now to find one of these........ somewhere :banghead: it never ends.

Great find Kevin,

Yet another interesting L1 related collectable, I bet, stuck at the back of a shelf, under 2 inches of dust in a RNZALR Armourers workshop somewhere is the part you need to complete this!

The pic makes it all fall into place now, the gauge mentioned will be the key. Then you just assemble the correct locking shoulders and carry on. I wonder if this was more for assembly of rifles than weapon tech's toolboxes?

That was the gauge to use at Command and Base Workshops to ascertain the size of locking shoulder required to bring an out of CHS rifle into the tightest CHS limit. Locking shoulders were a press fit and every time you pressed a L/S in place, it made the next L/S looser. So to save guess-work or keep removing and replacing sizes in number sequence (and like No4 bolt heads and Bren barrel nuts, L1A1 L/S's didn't follow number sequence in real life) until you got it right, this gauge gave you the thickness of L/S you needed to use. The thumb wheel turned the peg (photos 5 and 6) downwards until it bore against the slight front taper of the L/S which pushed that part of the gauge rearwards. Is there a read-out on the front shaft? That way, it might not be EXACTLY right, but it would be within spec first time. Without having to faff around, opening up the L/S hole every time. Oversize L/S hole = ZF

I think that there was a calibrated gauge that went into the chamber and register on the datum diameter of the neck. It was from this gauge that the l/s size was taken.

Like Tankie, I saw the gauge in use, took it all on board for a few weeks and then got down to doing it how we always used to! But it was a time saver and prevented worn bodies becoming even more worn. When we were apprentices we had to use the gauge to do all this stuff because we had to strip our bench rifles to the last minute item. Then every part from everyones rifle was put in a sheet, shaken up and............... Then you started again!

I've been over the gauge with a fine tooth comb and some bright sunlight and I can't find any markings on the dial or the front section which compresses against a spring. Any marking or graduations must be on the second part to the gauge.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pfisuxaa-1.jpg


The Australian's had a much simpler system of gauging the correct size of locking shoulder required, they had 3 tapered gauges, two had the various sizes of Locking Shoulders and the third was for gauging the required shaft diameter. This was a much simpler system than the British or Canadian methods.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ohcuzssc-1.jpg

Pete, I recall using in it on my Inistial Armr's course, in 'Rifles'. With the Personable Ben Gunn, & the Late Denny Billborough. But never used them subsequently. Even though I had a brief 6 months detachment form the School of Infantry. Down to 27 Command Wksps. I was only employed there doing out inspections, on the refurbed Weapons that the Civvies had worked on.
And later on the refurbing of captured Argie Weapons. And subsequently later on, the very sad destruction on them!...:(

I thought this gauge was more locking shoulder related, rather than headspace. But time dulls the memory as You might empathise! LOL ;)

Seeing the Australian gauges (that I don't recall incidentally either at Unit level or at Bandiana) against the UK gauge, is a good example of the poms complicating things when there is usually a simpler method!

Just had second thoughts about the Australian idea of taper-rod gauges. It's this..... To use KtK's Aust gauges, you first have to remove the old L/S. And thereby hangs the problem because the L/S isn't an interference fit as such, as defined in engineering terms, it's best described as a friction fit. And removing and replacing them will enlarge the engagement area of the hole by microns each out-in event. Even in the early 60's, worn L/S holes leading to rifles becoming ZF were becoming a problem. That's the reason why L/S's were not only numbered to deal with the WIDTH required to obtain CHS but also identified by the 2x (?) oversize diameter to cater for worn bodies.

If my memory is correct, I seem to recall that the oversize diameters weren't available in the largest number sizes as by then those rifles were already knocking at the door of the scrapyard.

There was no pressure test (so far as I remember) that confirmed that a L/S was too loose although Tankie anmd Skippy will confirm that we used to tap them with a hammer and brass drift and note the dull solid thud that indicated tight one. John Dudley one of the RAEME Armourers devised a simple weight drop-test that would put a weight/load on a L/S that would at least give a quantifiable tightness. That was rejected because it utilised a shock load (albeit a primitive form of.....) whereas.........

Hey......... just watched a USAF Flying Fortress fly overhead. Pure magic, made my day......................... I'm glad they were on our side. Jeepers....... followed a minute later by a Mustang.

But back to normality....., continued...... whereas the workshop method of removal and replacement was by means of a screw press on shaped tools. The screw press was usually a large bench vice! You won't believe this and I never thought that I'd repeat it but I'm sure it'll be in KtK's UK EMER's in the Field and Base section, but at one time in the 60's we were securing L/S's into rifles by clearing and cleaning the inner areas with trichlor, smearing it with Araldite and using that to lock the shoulder in place. Mind boggling or what? Whether that was a temporary repair until the idea of larger diameters came into being I don't know.

But with my engineering hat on, I'd say that better to KNOW what size L/S you need before you try several others. Interesting thread.

Just back outside to fill my Mini Cooper cooling system with a waterless based coolant.

I see what your saying .... but if it comes time to use the Australian gauges, then the locking shoulder needs to be replaced and the old one will of been removed since the taper gauges are ..... tapered you can insert them into the locking shoulder hole without oversizing the hole and then do the two thumb test and see which locking shoulder is required size 1 thru to 15. The Australians had 60 Locking Shoulders to select from, sizes 1 - 15 in four different shaft diameters.

I was just reading the EMERs and their solution for loose Locking Shoulders the modification was to enlarge the locking shoulder hole by driving a 0.2998 in. dia. Tungsten Carbide Ball (3110-99-964-5568) (I'm still looking for one of these :help: ) and then using the larger shaft 'Y' marked Locking Shoulders after the hole had been gauged by the L22A1 Plug Gauge.

As to testing for loose Locking Shoulders, the Australians method was to using a spring loaded center punch with a maximum 50 lb blow, may be used. The British method was to "applying maximum pressure to left end of locking shoulder using a large Phillips screwdriver or similar tool".

British Locking Shoulder Press
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rygi6sqr-1.jpg

Australian Locking shoulder Press
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...se0mmwks-1.jpg

Yes indeed, Peter's explaination of a Brass drift & 1/2 pound 'Hammer, Armourers,Ball Paign, half pound' was the 'Usual' & quicker method of testing for loose locking shoulders.

Remember, if you are doing a 'Six Monthly', on a ENTIRE Infantry Battalions Small Arms holdings. That is a LOT of Rifles to inspect, Twice a year! Not forgetting All the magazines, Bayonets. Other SMGs, LMGs, MMGs, Mortars, Anti Tank Shoulder Fired Weapons, Instruments, Optical equipments, Etc, Etc........ You get the picture I'm SURE!

ANYTHING that would speed your workload safely & efficiently. Would be utilised, even if it was not an 'Officially Approved' method. as long as it did not/ would not damage the equipment.

And more importantly, was SAFE! Mind you, there was a limit to what one could do!....call it 'tricks of the trade' picked up & learned from more learned Senior collegues at the at time.
And incorporated in your own work, out put executions! ;)

Removing a locking shoulder with pressure was fairly easy. you NEVER, EVER drove one out with a Drift/ punch!!!! They were so hard, they would/ Have seen them, shatter!!!

A Ball bearing was placed on the left side of the locking shoulder. In the concave portion of the cross shaft. Then, pressure could be slowly applied to this B/Bearing. & the shoulder would slide in until seated.

Pete, regarding Aircraft over your domicile. We have a privately owned small grassed Airfield up the road. Owned by a Millionaire. He regularly fly's either His Spitfire or Mustang (Oh, the Agony of choice!) over my own House. Only when the weather is good/ dry. Usually late afternoons, or at weekends. & sometimes on both days at the W/End.
We are spoiled! :D
Oh, the sound of those Merlin Engines, so distinctive. I never tire of hearing them! :thup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tankhunter

A Ball bearing was placed on the left side of the locking shoulder. In the concave portion of the cross shaft. Then, pressure could be slowly applied to this B/Bearing. & the shoulder would slide in until seated.

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These word pictures are priceless to me, having examined FNs from one end to the other during the countless hours of boredom and drudgery involved while holding one for one reason or another. I can see it all...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tankhunter

We have a privately owned small grassed Airfield up the road. Owned by a Millionaire. He regularly fly's either His Spitfire or Mustang (Oh, the Agony of choice!) over my own House.

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I remember as a kid being out in the back schoolyard at home and hearing an engine far above me looking up...to see a Spitfire Mk 9 doing a slow barrel roll. I looked around to see no one else was aware... Years later I watched it at an airshow in Windsor Ontario, still resplendent in UK battle colors, owned by a millionaire there...

It gets even better (see thread 12). Just watched a white and grey RAF Catalina flying low in the opposite direction to yesterdays Fortress and Mustang. Fantastic. Mind you, not so fantastic if you are a local U-Boat commander.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

a local U-Boat commander.

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Got many there? You have U505 over at Birkenhead(?) beside the Mersey. We have the odd one around, an ex Artyman...a Tiger commander (died recently) and a Fallschirmjäger Lt...also just recently deceased.

I blame Kevin the Kiwi. Why does he keep throwing these low-ballers in that test the old memory banks going back years and years

I had to look back to see what the thread was about...

U534 Jim,

Now cut into sections and moved unfortunately, I had a tour of "Das Boat" back in 1998 when she still complete, a quite remarkable privilege to see and tour such a rare (and very intact and structurally sound) survivor of her type.

The Conning Tower was rebuilt by the apprentices at Camel Lairds. She was highly controversially cut up into 5 pieces in 2006 and moved to a new site when The Warship Preservation Trust was closed due to development of the site they occupied.

Two sections were displayed with Plexiglas panels covering the holes apparently .... So it definitely wins the "Who has the biggest instructional Cut Away" competition!

Sorry to throw the thread even further into the long grass!

---------- Post added at 04:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:30 PM ----------

If it's a one off, rare as hens teeth L1A1 related component of accessory, you can bet Kevin's got it, or its on his hunt down list!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

U534

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Right, don't know where I got the other from...except I think it was captured intact. Now a museum ship in the US.

But back to real life......... These special tools and gauges that KtK collects and produces to trip us up every so often just go to show the way life really worked at our big workshops. There was no time for hammer and bash or what you colonials call 'bubbas merchants'. You can imagine how it feels when you see boxes of breeching washers or locking shoulders etc etc at the big shows - or even bolt heads. You just walk on thinking to yourself that '.......some of these so called gunsmiths really have no idea'. Everything was thorough and methodical using the right tools for the job. Then you'd see what they're passing off as quality work............... As for letting them loose with all these gauges........... Holy sxxx! Bolts being slammed forwards on the reject, accepts being extracted and ejected with a whizzzzzz across the floor. not-to-pass plug gauges being forced in to 'prove' to the seller by the 'home made expert' that the bore really is worn out. Then, when you wince or grimace with a knowing look, they look back as though you've just come in on the banana boat

You've got me going now.............. Time for another scotch!

I like gathering up the the unique armourers made tools, I hate to think how many unique tools, gauges and fixtures that have gone to the scrap or the tip because no one wanted them or they are told to get rid of it as its obsolete. Some are works of art, some are..... well.... practical, but they are unique and served a purpose.

Here's some I've managed to gathered over the years*.

Flash Eliminator Spanners
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pxyblcns-1.jpg

Screwdrivers
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...w3to1zlt-1.jpg

Wrenches and Extractor Removal Tool
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ugllphff-1.jpg

Foresight / Gas Block Tools
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...92qw5bgs-1.jpg



*now if any of these did belong to any of the members at one stage...... tough they aren't coming back. :madsmile:

The U505 is at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago. Rescued in the 1950's by the then retired Admiral Gallery who led the task force that captured her on 5 June 1944 off the coast of Africa. The U.S. Navy was going to use her as a target ship when he stepped in and procured funding to save her. The 505 was the first ship captured on the high seas by the U.S. Navy since the War of 1812.

NZ, the pics of some of those tools brought back memories! Of going through basic trade training, & were generally made by Individual Training Armourers.

They were usually hand made, when undergoing 'Basic Bench Fitting' in the Trade Schools. They were checked rigorously when you 'Thought' you had finished them. By Eagle eyed Instructors. Who generally, though not always. Were retired Ex Armourers themselves. Selected, because of the high standard of technical Instruction & Training we Underwent! ;)

The reason that these tools were made as Trade Test Pieces, was. The very sensible notion, that what you made, when going through the 'General Engineering wing'. In but One Phase of your Tech training. You could then use at your unit, when working on Small Arms & MGs there. It made your life a lot simpler, with 'The Right tool, for the right job!
Particularly the 'C' Spanner for undoing Gas cylinders on SLRS. & the ESSENTIAL Flash Hider removal/ Installation Tool! ;)

They obviously varied in Quality & finish. As ALL were Hand Made. Some Better than others!....Isnt that Right Peter?...LOL. :madsmile:

For some years I had the butt spring removal tool for FN C1...and found out they were all made in trade school by the man that used it as part of their machine training. No tack hammer for them...(like we did in hi school).

These tools take me back....... We all made them and generally they were simpler and worked far better than the issued tools. We did a year of bench fitting and made all sorts of stuff, just Like Tankie says! I inevitably had mine put back on my bench with a sarcastic note by the fatherly but strict Mr Surtees, our class ex Artillery basic trades Instructor. Nice to see the little A in U stamped on the little tool (photo 4, thread 23). That indicated a tool that was made according to a spec/drawing/EMER instruction and as such, was taken 'on account' by the technical stores. It was logged in 'the A in U account' which told us that it was from the tech stores and was an 'ARTICLES IN USE'.

The Tech storemen were not generally the brightest lights in the box, but a few rungs up the ladder from the Ordnance Blanket stackers. It was quite easy to get one over on them by handing in a few broken bits that could pass as a something that you'd like to keep. Like a set of nice recently calibrated Vee blocks or vernier caliper....... You know the sort of thing!

Great thread, brings me out in a chuckle. Let's have some more.......................................

I'll see what other bits of rubbish I can find.........

I like this...... can anyone tell me where to find the drawings for it? ;)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0ayfp4er-1.jpg

The SLR 'Stands' came onto the market a few years ago in the UK. They were all brand new in the wrapping. Why? Because no self respecting Armourer would use anything like them!

They were a rubbish design! The Rifle would have wobbled about like a Dick in a Shirtsleeve! Any hard energy required to remove a particular component, would have made it bend Of come off the 'Stand' because all that was keeping in on. Was the Mag catch & Mag lug on the front of the Magazine!.......

I cant remember exactly, but I THINK these were available to Royal Navy Armourers. Which is why we never saw them in Army Service. And would never have used them for their intended purpose anyway!!!!..............

They would be useful now in a Civilian application though. As a Display Stand for a Deactivated L1A1 Rifle!.....................;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tankhunter

The SLR 'Stands' came onto the market a few years ago in the UK. They were all brand new in the wrapping. Why? Because no self respecting Armourer would use anything like them!

They were a rubbish design! The Rifle would have wobbled about like a Dick in a Shirtsleeve! Any hard energy required to remove a particular component, would have made it bend Of come off the 'Stand' because all that was keeping in on. Was the Mag catch & Mag lug on the front of the Magazine!.......

I cant remember exactly, but I THINK these were available to Royal Navy Armourers. Which is why we never saw them in Army Service. And would never have used them for their intended purpose anyway!!!!..............

They would be useful now in a Civilian application though. As a Display Stand for a Deactivated L1A1 Rifle!.....................;)

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wobbled about like a Dick in a Shirtsleeve. Mike, you just made me laugh out load with that one! Sat round a pool at the moment in the Greek Islands, enjoying more than a few beers, just thought I would share that..

The plans and details for these little stands were detailed in EMER instruction X 069 Misc Inster No. 2, Issue 1, Sep 71

To be honest, I never saw one of those contraptions either but agree with Tankie that it looked useless. The bloke who designed that and put the suggestion forwards really had a bit too much time on his hands and needed to get out a bit more. The nearest thing I ever saw and used was an old magazine filled with a suitably shaped oak/hardwood block that you could just put in the bench vice and hold the rifle rigidly on that! In real life again, we'd just hold the butt with the leather or soft vice clamps and rest the barrel on what we called the 'armourers horse'.

As for a jig for holding the Sterling.......... whatever next?

Some of these suggestions, called 'GEMS' that were submitted were a total waste of rations/houseroom. BUT they were followed up and tested sometimes just to prove the stupidity of the idea. Even if they were rejected, the paperwork went back to the suggestee with suitably endorsed words of encouragement and a monetary award.

I saw one that suggested re-fitting or repositioning a bracket on a vehicle - I think it was a Land Rover. Clearly not well thought out because the newly positioned screw would screw into the battery casing sat tight behind the thin sheet metal panel.

Here's the answer a New Zealand Armourer had for Peter's mag house with hardwood block.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...6gyel68g-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...sagn2oj0-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...zdctrvmj-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...no1hkmv6-1.jpg

Just grab it in the vise and get to work...

As Peter has Endorsed. The rifles were held in a bench Vice & the Butt resting on a 'Horse'.

Also, if you had a 4" Vice, the Reciever CAN/ Was be held by the RHS. In the magazine well.
I have done this on Numerous Occasisons. But if you do this, ENSURE you use protective Clams!
Or you will end up with 'Bubba' 'Checkering' on that Flange!.....:eek:

Here's a Base Workshops Jig, created because they were refurbishing 100's of weapons a week.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dtr1jsxm-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ikvraock-1.jpg

Yes......... That's one of the jigs for scraping down butts prior to sanding off, staining inspection and putting back on the rack or to make butt patching easier. There were some other variations of this because using this holding method you couldn't rotate the butt while scraping it off. Other butt (and handguard jigs) allowed you to release the butt and rotate the butt a tad, carry on scraping, same again, scrape etc etc. Maybe that one (thread 36) is held by the protruding spigot in the vice and allows you to rotate the butt or keep it upright by gripping the main body part.

The handguard jigs allowed you to work both handguards as a set.

Eventually, a lot of the woodwork was cleaned off ready for 'the bath' (the linseed oil bath overnight) in a special 'bead blaster' cabinet that blasted the wood with fine walnut shells.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nzl1a1collector

Here's a Base Workshops Jig, created because they were refurbishing 100's of weapons a week.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dtr1jsxm-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ikvraock-1.jpg

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Some very useful kit there Kevin, I wish I had these available when I was restoring L1A1's a couple of years back, or indeed for maintaining my personal Rifles now for that matter..

Just make them then! We used to make these simple tools and jigs all the time. But we were overhauling hundreds.......... If it was one or two then just the basic tool kit was the order of the day

Afternoon Peter, I used to use an old welded up Malay contract Lithgow as my workshop tool, the stripped out TMH was ideal for finishing and fitting of butts.

She now sits reassembled forlornly in the corner of my small workshop awaiting rebuild herself now my stock of L1A1 woodwork has run dry.