Lee metford/Enfield cavalry carbine restoration

I was having a bit of a log jam with my carbine restorations. With RIC carbines and NZ contract jobbies I could get away with using a MLE rifle nose cap or one from a Martini Enfield. Not always an easy thing to find, but still doable. However, trying to find a nosecap for a cavalry carbine turned up a big fat zero. There simply are non out there to be found.

Then a chap in New Zealand stepped up with some nosecaps that he had made by investment casting. Very high quality and the fit is quite good. The nosecaps have a healthy price tag, but it is an expensive process and no other options if I wanted to complete those projects. I have restored a couple now with the cast ones, they turned out quite good.

So as an alternative, I made a contact with another collector who was into restoring a sad sportered cav carbine. He basically needed everything except the action. He has access to a full machine shop, including a master machinist with a CNC controlled milling machine. We made a deal. I made him a wood set and supplied the parts he needed, he supplied me a brace of nosecaps copied from an original that I supplied as a pattern. Win - win.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9pzn9j9y-1.jpg
Left is a CNC machined unit, center is original, right side unit is investment cast.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...q6yzhsoq-1.jpg

Now to address the lack of barrel bands. Stay tuned!!

This will be a very neat little carbine in the end. How are you going to blue it? A rust blue, although time consuming will provide a beautiful deep rich finish that will mirror the original...

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...n8udcogy-1.jpg . https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lb35vpng-1.jpg
Two that I just restocked. The 1898 one has a spliced front section, the 1899 has new front wood complete.

For the most part, I don't refinish metalwork. Only if I have some major problem that requires machining or draw filing will I rust blue. I have a wooden rusting box (transit chest with steam feed), it is time consuming, yes, but a finish that can't be duplicated with anything out of a bottle.

The nose caps and barrel bands were originally oil blackened I believe. Fairly simple process too, but takes practice to get it just right. Basically the part is heated in an iron box on a camp stove, then dropped into used motor oil, washed and repeated until the desired black is produced. Tough as nail finish.

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Originally Posted by englishman_ca

the part is heated in an iron box on a camp stove, then dropped into used motor oil, washed and repeated until the desired black is produced. Tough as nail finish.

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Excellent info, thanks. Lovely looking work.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...chjvxo7n-1.jpg

This is another one that needed some TLC. I replaced the barrel with one taken from a rifle and turned down to carbine dimensions. The wood needed a slice with the joint under the barrel band.

And another one. An 1896 Lee Metford cavalry carbine manufactured in spring/early summer, one of around seven hundred made in this variation. Features are that it is manufactured without the D-Ring provision but does have the sling bar on the butt stock.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...isecc5zg-1.jpg

Nice looking little carbines. We usually don't even see the sporterized carbines at shows now.

There really were not that many carbines made compare to the rifles.

Most that I found locally have decent bores. That tells me that they were cleaned after use and maintained by their owners even in their sportered state.

A sportered carbine is the nicest little deer gun for dogging that you could wish for. Some sporters I will keep as sporters.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aglsld7z-1.jpg
This is my pet. 1899 LEC Mk.I. Rear peep sighted. The comb on the butt and the pistol grip are added with wood taken from the front section of the forearm.

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Originally Posted by englishman_ca

A sportered carbine is the nicest little deer gun for dogging that you could wish for. Some sporters I will keep as sporters.

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I would think they would have been gleaned as new from surplus and sold for hunting for exactly the reasons you say. If newish they'd be very attractive and I'd keep mine in good shape too.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...yygixpng-1.jpg
This one was worth saving. All matching Mk.I complete with D-ring.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bntrccib-1.jpg https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...gvcoei0z-1.jpg

Dyed the wood, now going at it with BLO.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...z4iwailw-1.jpg
1895 LMC Mk.I, matching bolt, bright bore, D-ring intact.

Hey, this is my 100th post!

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Originally Posted by englishman_ca

Hey, this is my 100th post!

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Congrat on that too...!

You mention oil blacking in an earlier thread. As apprentices, we were taught the ins and outs and technicalities of that process in our 2nd year. It really is a tough old finish and all of our tools were oil blacked that way. We used to do all of the smaller parts using gas fired blow-lamps and you can get the exact finish you want too and it doesn't (?) affect the hardening of the steel if done sensibly - as we did bayonet handles too.

There was another process I learned from one of the old Sgts in New Zealand, and that was 'blanket-blacking'. You got the material deep red and wiped it over with an old wool blanket that left it with a hard black carbon surface. Maybe someone can elaborate on that process a bit more as I only did it a few times on Sten gun parts that were going back into Ordnance stocks

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

'blanket-blacking

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I heard about one here that would be about the same but apparently wasn't...wool sock. I tried it and the finish came out a grey instead...I like the oil blackening instead.

I suspect the key to this "blacking" caper is the base material of the components in question.

ALMOST all of the "fiddly bits" on Lee Enfields (pre No4) were made of various grades of "malleable cast iron".

There was usually a "forging" phase in the formation of the component.

Oil blacking works fine with these materials. One thing is the part of the operation called "blazing off". As near as I can make it out, this involves actually letting the oil burn off the component after it has been heated to "cherry red" or whatever, and then briefly dipped in the oil pan.

Oils? Given the times when all of this was going on, I would not be surprised if large marine mammals were involved, if involuntarily. There was not a lot of "mineral" or "synthetic" oil around during the 17th through 19th centuries.

Not a lot of exotic “alloy” steels in use, either.

As the Irish sailor said when he first saw Moby Dick: "Whale Oil Beef Hooked!"

This is a nose cap from the latest and final batch of nose caps produced on the CNC mill. I now have enough to last me a lifetime of projects. Now to work on barrel bands and retainers.....

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...gbtsgai7-1.jpg

The program was tweaked a bit to correct a couple of things. Pretty much perfect now. The only way to tell that they are repro is that they are just too perfect. They are too 'crisp' at the corners and edges and are perfectly symmetrical about the center line.
Obviously they have no inspection marks, although I might initial and date them inside somewhere hidden.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...y9ibvclb-1.jpg
This one has been bead blasted to mellow it a bit. They are made from mild steel and take rust blue nicely.

They look great and the fact that they're hen's teeth make them acceptable. The rust blue will make them about perfect.

Throw them in a gem tumbler with a bunch of ball bearings and some smooth pebbles for a few hours and then have a look.

They will probably have "aged" a bit.

As for finish; try the "blazing off" trick I mentioned above, as well.

I have an original one of those nosecaps here. Now all I need is the rest of the Carbine.......

Hi i have a lee enfeild no 1 mk 3, its my first gun bigger than a 22. But your guns look really neat. i would rebuild mine sporterized but i dont have the money, and only the barral and bolt are maching. But i think by barrel might be bad do you know where i could get a new barrel.

Often a worn or pitted Lee Enfield barrel can be made to shoot quite well with slightly larger bullets.

'303' is the nominal size of the bore, .311 being the standard groove diameter. With a worn bore, sometimes .314 bullets will work like a charm.

You would need to have some cartridges hand loaded. Even shooters with good condition rifles try loading with different bullets and powders to 'tune' their ammunition for their gun.

Hand loading for accuracy can turn into a hobby on its own. But reloading your cartridges certainly is the economical way to shoot the Lee Enfield.

So don't give up on that barrel until you have given it a chance to shoot at some targets and you can evaluate.

I hand load for these carbines, a lighter bullet and less powder make them pleasant to shoot.

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Originally Posted by sir geron

i think by barrel might be bad

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Agreed, have you shot it for group yet? Use sandbags and factory jacketed bullets. Don't use old stuff, use new made...

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Originally Posted by englishman_ca

Often a worn or pitted Lee Enfield barrel can be made to shoot quite well with slightly larger bullets.

'303' is the nominal size of the bore, .311 being the standard groove diameter. With a worn bore, sometimes .314 bullets will work like a charm.

You would need to have some cartridges hand loaded. Even shooters with good condition rifles try loading with different bullets and powders to 'tune' their ammunition for their gun.

Hand loading for accuracy can turn into a hobby on its own. But reloading your cartridges certainly is the economical way to shoot the Lee Enfield.

So don't give up on that barrel until you have given it a chance to shoot at some targets and you can evaluate.

I hand load for these carbines, a lighter bullet and less powder make them pleasant to shoot.

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englishman ca--

I have to commend you on your restorations of the cavalry carbines. There seems be quite a few of them in Canada. I have just a question on shooting the cavalry carbine. Did they have the same problem as the No. 5 MKI carbine with the wandering zero?
I also light load my No. 5 MKI carbine to shoot otherwise it like fighting two rounds with the heavyweight boxing champ. Again great job.

--fjruple

I have shot the No.5 lightweight rifle quite a lot and have never experienced the wandering zero. Mind you, I shoot maybe 20 rounds at a time, not hundreds in the heat of battle. So I can't comment on wandering zero first hand, but some credible people insist that it does happen.

The cavalry carbine is no where near the same rifle as the No.5. The cav carbine is lighter and slimmer, thinner barrel, lighter Lee receiver. I think it comes up to the shoulder better and I like the open sights for snap shooting. The carbine has graceful lines for sliding into a saddle scabbard without snagging.

No.5 sights are calibrated out to 800 yards. Cav carbine is optimistically sighted to 2000 yards, the extreme range probably more for use for volley fire.

For target work I would pick the peep sighted No.5. However, I am not too keen on the rubber butt pad, which has a smaller surface area, and actually makes felt recoil worse.

The cav carbine with carbine loads is a pleasure to shoot.

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Originally Posted by englishman_ca

the open sights

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Those older sights are magic to shoot...beautiful.

Hello, I recently picked up a very nice and matched cav carbine, but missing the hand guard and mid-barrel band. Does anyone have and idea on where to find one? Will a MkI barrel band be a close fit? Thanks in advance, Ryan

The barrel bands that I use are actually rifle bands that has the shoulders taken out and the band reformed.

I did try fitting one from an smle, but they are just a tad bigger than a carbine band.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/nlbo7s-1.jpg
I got this one to fit only because I was making a replacement fore stock and added a little more depth to the front section. I fit it up using an original hand guard. So it can be made to work, providing that it is the non hinged style, otherwise relief has to be cut into the top of the hand guard.

So I experimented and found that I could reforge a rifle band into a close facsimile.
https://www.milsurps.com/[/IMG]
As you can see, the bottom portions of both the rifle and carbine bands are similar below the waistline. The upper portions differ in that the carbine band is designed to fit over a wooden hand guard, and the rifle barrel band is designed to fit directly over the bare barrel.

What I tried was to reforge taking out the shoulders in the rifle band.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../16h28up-1.jpg
The band is made out of a soft cast iron. Get it really hot, it becomes plastic and can be easily worked.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../35a6wi0-1.jpg
The first thing to do is to open the band right out to get at the internal shoulders.

https://www.milsurps.com/[/IMG]
Then iron out the shoulders a little bit. This also has the effect of drawing the band out a bit and making it longer.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../33l1nw8-1.jpg
Attention is made to the outside and the 'crease' of the fold is taken right out.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/fbdrac-1.jpg
Once the band has been 'ironed', the clean up begins which is basically file work on the inside and out.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../2qwmm1u-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../212u4ad-1.jpg
I mount a chunk of solid round bar in the bench vise and use that as a mandrel over which to bend and reform the band.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/a4qtea-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/v3zr0n-1.jpg
Not perfect, but close enough to be functional.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/e9dvvd-1.jpg
It is a lot of work and it took me quite a few attempts to get it right. Problem now is that I am running low on rifle bands. I want them for rifle projects, they are getting hard enough to find as it is.

So fabrication is the solution, I know a clever lad who does machining for me.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../2webaqt-1.jpg
I gave him an original band and he copied it. These bands are fabricated by assembling formed and machined pieces and then tig welding them into one unit. Again, a lot of work, but this will save me from sacrificing any more rifle bands.

https://photos.imageevent.com/badger...ry/2dj5cew.jpg

Again, beautiful work Simon and your machinist friend.

You must be at the point now where you can almost bring a bare receiver back to a complete cavalry carbine.

It has taken a while to get my act together, but yes, I can pretty much tackle any project, now that I have gathered my resources.

Actually, more than once have I started out with just a stripped receiver that nobody wanted.

It seems that there is a lot of Lee Metford and Enfield carbines hidden up here in Canada. Most are modified into great deer rifles.
Some work just too well as a dogging gun (used by the poor fool that beats through the thick Ontario brush to flush the deer towards the waiting hunting party :wave:) to restore back to milspec. I do live in the heart of bear and deer and moose country.

I have tried hunting with other rifles, but I always seem to come back to the sporter LEC.

If your able to address the mid barrel band let me know and I will be your first customer.

Has anyone tried putting a SMLE forestock on a LEC trying to restore it to original LEC configuration? Does it come anywhere close? Have the band and the nosecap just need the wood. Not very good at working wood myself. THANKS

The short answer is, yes! The Sht.LE fore end can be reduced down to LEC dimensions. A little patching is required to blank off a few extraneous cut outs.
But cutting it down would give you some nicely matching wood scraps with which to work.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/5xpnpe-1.jpg

What is currently fitted to your carbine?

Currently the stock is cut off several inches in front of the band.

Refurbished and authentic looking. I try to leave as much of the original intact.

Stocking up can take a long time to get the bedding right. I prefer to rework the already bedded original stock if I am serious about building an accurate shooting rifle.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../2uzuy38-1.jpg

I usually try to hide the splice joint under the barrel band, but in this case, I saved the section directly in front of the barrel band as it had the inletting for the barrel band retainer. The sporter shot very well and I understand as to why it had been used as a deer rifle for many generations by the same family.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/23uyaa-1.jpg

Once oiled the wood darkens and blends.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/qs5zxk-1.jpg
Where's waldo?