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Didnt see a Sub fourum for French rifles. I bought this at our local gun shop a few weeks ago for $100. It was missing the Lower mag cover and all the feeder parts. Ordered a complete trigger assy from Liberty tree and a enbloc clip. im into it for a little under 200. I had never personally seen one of these when I bought it. Everytime I think I have Milsurps figured out I learn something new
Berhier carbines are one of the few carbines I actually enjoy shooting. The Prvi Partisan ammo has been quite acceptable. In fact, my avatar photo is a shot looking down the sights of one of these French carbines!
Very nice, in about two hours I am going to be taking out my Berthier M1907/15 rifle. Definitely fun rifles and extremely under appreciated at that.
thanks, i need to get some ammo and shoot this one.Is PPU ok in these?
PPU is safe for any Berthiers or Lebels provided they are in good working order. It is set up to duplicate the Balle 'D' ammo, which was a 198grn .323dia bullet at 2400ft/sec.
The only time you might have a issue is if you have a non 'N' marked rifle and are trying to shoot surplus ammo through it. The 'N' marking allowed the rifles to use Balle 'N' which was a larger diameter bullet and a slightly longer case neck. The update basically just reamed the neck of the chamber slightly larger so it could chamber the round without overpressure issues. It isn't so much of a issue today as now most of the Balle 'N' surplus has been shot off.
If the bore is good you can expect some pretty good results. The best I have done was about a inch and a quarter at 100m, however the bore on my rifle is just about new.
That's a very nice berthier you have:thup:. I've been hesitant to shoot both of mine as both still have some damage from Vietnam that can't be fixed easy. The top is a first generation carbine that has a severe field repair on the wrist of the stock. I've only been able to secure in place with two-ton apoxy. The bottom is an indochinois variant that has a rather nasty crack in the stock behind the receiver. I would try and fix it but the problem is that it's the matching stock and it's a rarer variant so spare stocks aren't so plentiful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
This is a popular misconception. The 1932N cartridge has a heavier bullet(232gr vs 198), powder charge and produces higher chamber pressures than the Balle D but maximum bullet diameters are the same, .328''. Besides weight and construction the biggest differenct between the two bullets is the location of their maximum diameters, The solid copper lathe turned Balle D bullet has it's max diameter located above the crimp groove and the lead core cupro-nickel jacketed 1932N bullet has it's below the crimp groove. This location causes the 1932N cartridge to have a larger neck diameter than the Balle D.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
This is what makes it dangerous to fire 1932N cartridges in unconverted rifles. The neck portion of an unconverted rifles chamber isn't large enough to allow the N cartridges case neck to expand sufficiently enough to release the bullet and will produce chamber pressures higher than normal.
Since we're showing off our Berthier's here's my unconverted M1916 St. Etienne carbine made in 1918. It's all matching and appears to have escaped all of the post WWI mods/upgrades.
I'll throw a picture or two of mine up. M1907/15 manufactured at St. Etienne in 1916. Metal is all matching except the bolt head, and the stock is mismatched (though it is a 1916 manufacture stock). It has received the Balle 'N' modification. Also pictured is some 8x50r Lebel I loaded with some surplus Balle 'N' bullets, those bullets are pretty much all shot up now. It also preforms excellently with the .323 diameter 198 fmj boattails PPU makes so that is what I will likely only be using in the future.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...uqec8kep-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...leb4nzld-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...uzsxkmf7-1.jpg
Some good looking units. Mine dont look the best but I guess it just adds character. Like said I never seen one of these till I bought this one. Ive been into collecting milsurps for just a few years so I still see a lot of them I dont know about.
They aren't common that's for sure. Smaller collector market usually, and less collectors (I can't even find a book in English on French Military rifles). There is lots of unique and weird features to these rifles that just aren't found anywhere else (like the straight triggers).
And NO bloomin' safety!:move eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
My safety has always been my finger... especially after I saw a guy discharge into his car with his safety on. Personally I see it more as a advantage than a disadvantage since your gun is either loaded and ready to go or the chamber is empty with a full magazine (or empty magazine). Some people place too much faith in the safety, the French placed none in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage hunter
Kinda like viewing abstract art I reckon, everybody sees it differently. As I see it the lack of a safety is an accident waiting to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
He obviously isn't a very responsible gun owner. Otherwise he would've ensured the safety was in proper working order prior to using the gun and he wouldn't have pointed a loaded gun at anything he didn't intend to shoot. JMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
The no safety is no big deal to me. Its not like it is a gun I would take out and shoot for hours, If I ever shoot it at all.
The idea is you don't rely on it. You leave the chamber empty until you are ready to shoot, at which time you cycle the bolt. It is safer as there is 100% no chance of a accidental discharge due to safety failure or someone thinking the safety is on and accidentally pulling the trigger. In regards to the other gun owner, that was a wake up call, and he learnt a very valuable lesson there. He has been significantly better since.Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage hunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage hunter
Another popular misconception is that the case neck needs to expand to release the bullet . Just use common sense , if you pull the bullet out with pliers or a plastic bullet puller , the case does not magically expand . There is no force to make it expand and the bullet is the same size . It does not take much force to pull the bullet by hand , around 50 to 100 fp's , which is nothing compared to the 40,000 + psi made by firing . So why would another 50 or so make a difference ? All the N stamp means is the rifle was checked to make sure it would chamber the new round .
The Mle 1932 D and the Mle 1932 N cartridges both had .327" as their largest diameter. However, the .327" on the 1898 D was in front of the crimping groove and outside the neck, and the .327" diameter on the 1932 N was located inside the case neck thus necessitating enlarging the chamber at the neck. The N was then marked on the barrel and receiver to denote the modification. Tom
Bob, you need to take your own advise and use common sense.