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I have several M1905 bayonets and all but one are SA. All the SA's have a prominant blue line ahead of the guard but the RIA does not. I went looking on the internet for RIA bayonets to see if this was a trait of RIA or if the RAI bayonet I have has the blue worn away. The rest of the handle metal is a plum brown color. I could not find one RIA that showed a blue line ahead of the guard like the SA bayonets.
Can anyone verify this?
Thanks,
Robert
Gary Cunningham in his American Bayonets of the 20th Century states that until 1917, all 1st production 1905 bayonets were manufactured with a blued hilt and a bright blade. The bluing continued up the blade and ended just below the serial number. He does not distinguish between SA and RIA. I have a 1906 dated RIA and it does not have the blued strip on the blade. But it also doesn't have a serial number!Quote:
Originally Posted by rldarmstr
Thanks but I have that book and have read that section. It does not specifically state anything about the RIA facility or production procedures at that facility.
Even when reading Gary's work I tend to question statements that use the words ALL or NEVER.
I was hoping for a picture of an RIA to verify my concerns.
I am familiar with the SA version and what the blue line is and how it looks. I have never seen, to best of my recolection, a RIA bayonet that displayed this feature.
J.A. Maddox in his beautiful work "Collecting Bayonets" shows a blued 1917 RIA and a bright 1910 SA, and states that pre WWI M1905 bayonets are bright, with the hilt blued, the blue extending a few millimeters up the ricasso.
I also have an un numbered RIA 1906, M1905. RIA didn't number their early production. The finish on my RIA is NOT original, having been at one time blued and then re polished.
rongee has the info i would have added , i do have an early RIA M1905 tho so ill post it , the blueing doesnt go much beyond the cross guard on mine eather , it is in original bright finnish -
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ifles104-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ifles103-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ifles102-1.jpg
Thanks. A picture is worth a thousand words. Love those pictures.
That's a pretty nice rig. I have an SA with a 1905 scabbard that I ma prety proud of too.
This thread is about the RIA's though. I swear that there is no blue beyond the guard on my 1909 RIA and never was. It just doesn't look like there ever was anything there. The guard is in real nice shape and the blade from the guard forward is bright and looks like it always was bright.
The "Line of Blue" on most RIA production is very narrow, unlike that of Springfield which is much wider. In most of them, it is less than 1/32 wide and in some probably not more than 1/64. I agree that on most of them, there is only a hint of a line. Apparently Rock Island did their final polish almost up to the guard. I should have made this distinction more clear in my book. Hopefully one of these days I will get my Bayonet Points article on the Model 1905 bayonet finished and will try to be more specific .
The one in the photo is about as wide as I have ever seen on a Rock Island.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rd20hilt-1.jpg
Mine is parkerised so not much help on blueing i am afraid
Here are a couple pics of mine. I agree that it seems to be a production difference/technique between ther two facilities. When I read something that says 'all' have this or "none" have that, I really wantto see a poicture and a cross section of the item referenced so I know for myself. Apparently all M1905 bayonets fdo not have prominant bule line in front of the guard.
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...ayonats009.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...ayonats008.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...ayonats007.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...ayonats003.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...ayonats002.jpg
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/t...ayonats001.jpg
THe first 3 are the RIA I picked up a couple weeks ago.
The last three are my 1906 SA that I have had for several years. The blue line is not reall prominant in the pics. (bad photographer), it is actually very vivid.
Let's try this post. maybe these are a little better?
Here are a couple pics of mine. I agree that it seems to be a production difference/technique between the two facilities. When I read something that says 'all' have this or "none" have that, I really want to see a picture and a cross section of the items referenced so I know for myself. Apparently all M1905 bayonets do not have prominant blue line in front of the guard.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
https://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif
The first 3 are the RIA I picked up a couple weeks ago.
The last three are my 1906 SA that I have had for several years. The blue line is not real prominant in the pics. (bad photographer), it is actually very vivid.
Darn....I'm just not with it today! The pics re reversed. 1906 on top and RIA 1909 on bottom.
Sorry guys!
I'll get it sooner or later!
If all else fails, try this:
Pictures by rldarmstr - Photobucket
(before anyone asks the car is NOT for sale)
The only US bayonet from that era that I know that has a blue line that runs up the riscasso much above the guard is the US 1917 bayonet. Both Remington and Winchester.
I have a 1917 bright blade RIA, Serial Number 284xxx, that has the blue extending up to just below the serial number. I was told that about 400 RIAs were made at the restart of 1903 production in bright blade, and then they went to all blue, then parkerized. If this site would take attachments, I would post a picture. It also has mostly smooth style grips that match the patina of the metal. cc
Those are beautiful.Quote:
Originally Posted by rldarmstr
All, I sold an immaculate M1905 Bayonet manufactured by RIA in 1907. I can confirm that the polish of the blade was almost to the guard, unlike the SA versions. Regards, H.T.
I have an SA without bluing and an SA with it