M1A1 Paratrooper. Real McCoy?

Hi folks, was referred to you guys by senior members of another forum who said you are the top of mark as far as depth of knowledge on the M1A1. Looking forward to your input.

How I got it: A good friend of my wife is moving to California and she told me they can't take her husband's WWII carbine with them. They offered to sell me the gun if I took care of it and cherished it like her husband did. (He has alzheimer's and also had a stroke.) I have never owned a vintage gun so I didn't have any idea what was sitting on the table in front of me other than it was a folding wire stock carbine. I wrote them a check for the asking price without negotiating since they are good people and needed the cash for the move.

When I got the gun home I researched a bit and realized it was an M1A1 Paratrooper and original examples are valuable historical items. In the last few days I have learned a treasure trove of facts about it. Particularly interested in how they are faked, copied, built from parts, etc. I fully expected to have a bunch of replaced parts but was ok with that, the price was low. I'm no expert and some markings are very faint but I could see evidence that this could be original.

History: The wife and daughter told me the owner got it from his brother around 1955 and his brother got it in the mid 1940's. Brother's uncle was a doctor during WWII, not a paratrooper. They are asking other relatives for more info. He never shot it and kept it in a closet for decades only taking out to oil a bit externally. Dusty inside but good bore, old yellow grease inside on the spring had not been touched in a long time, wood is pretty dry. No corrosion except for a bit on the sling buckle. It was stored in an oiled cloth in a case. Only one family owned it since mid 1940's afaik. Still digging for more info.

Here's the pics. Opinions/observations are welcome. Grab a cold one and get comfortable this is a pic heavy post.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_6795-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_6796-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_6797-1.jpg
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Wow. The study of the M1A1 has not been my forte, but it sure looks original to me. Hopefully others will chime in with observations.

Do not store the rifle inside the plastic case - any moisture will stay in the case - much better for the rifle with regards to rust to be stored outside the plastic case.

Very nice rifle indeed.

That is a lovely (in my opinion, compared it to my own M1A1) original carbine. The stamps all look genuine and in the right places. Also the action is made by Inland which was the only manufacturer of A1 carbines.

Also kruffe is right, do not store the carbine in the case.

Is that a Winchester trigger group? Is the trigger parked or blue?

Very nice: turn the sling around

Very nice looking highwood M1A1. If you bought it for as you say a "Low Price" you received a great bargain. And Carbines are still legal in California.

Take one of the dust covers off a magazine and see it it has discolored the end of the mag. If so, might as well leave them on, if not, take them all off.

The jungle clip is an aftermarket item from probably the 80's.

I've only owned a M1A1 for a few weeks and have been reading everything I can find and pic'c I can look at since then. although I have owned diff. M1's for over 30 years, and the one you own is as real as it gets imo. it is in the right sn. range, the pic's are outstanding, every thing about that carbine is as good as it gets, I hope to be reading more comment's from the real expert's here [and their are many here].
IMHO I think you have a real treasure and a part of history, thank's again for the many and clear picture's.
[please turn that sling around] ;)

Nice looking little carbine...

WOW! What a gorgeous carbine! I vote it to be correct and looks to be original as well.

Thanks for all the input guys. I am truly blessed to be able to help preserve a bit of history. No way this will be sold during my lifetime. I paid so little for it I feel guilty. So guilty I already went back to see the family and forked over more cash. Couldn't sleep well if I didn't. Still feel a bit guilty though.

I don't want to take a chance on damaging the original stock so I ordered a repro stock to fire it with. Considering the expert opinions here I am now having second thoughts about firing the gun, ever.

Opinions needed for sure on this question: Should I ever fire this gun?

Kruffe, Beginner: I have a desiccant pack in there and the case edges aren't airtight. Will that be ok or still don't use it? How about a canvas case that can breathe?

shadycon. lboos: Thanks for the tip on the sling. It has been on backwards for a long time apparently.

Hey Detroit-1 how do I tell if that is a Winchester trigger group and what is the significance of that? What is the significance of a blued vs. parkerized trigger?

In at least one of the pics the trigger looks a bit darker than the surrounding parts but it may be a fluke of the flash. Only one pic seems to show a difference. Would it be obvious and how do I tell the difference? Color, wear, shine, etc?

Thanks guys!

ps. The stock is a bit dry. Would it be advisable to give it a rub with some of the original finish: Linseed oil? (boiled, raw, or refined?) Or should I leave it alone?

I thought Inlands had a blued trigger. My 4-44 does. On your picture of the trigger group I see a W. If so, Iam not a expert, that would mean that it was changed sometime. Still it is a gun I would be proud to own!

Pretty clearly an Inland trigger housing (you can see the stamp). Mag release is marked WI.

HDSledge,
Many here know far more then me, and please correct me if I make a mistake, but the M1/M1A1's were the 1st parts gun, at that time in history, the mnf. were not interested if all part's matched, they did not give a rat's a$$ about collectors of today.
Their could many mix'ed parts on these war time carbines. from what I have read their were few all matching ones, if any.
When I clean mine I used the same rag with CLP that I used on the gun to wipe down the stock, as far as shooting it I am taking mine to the range tomorrow and shoot around 15-20 rounds in it, then clean it and put it in a glass display case in my home.
Firing it is up to you, some say don't do it, I have a lot of WW-2 era guns, I fire them all to make they work, the WW-2 small arm's weapons are very robust imo. But I am no expert.
You have a beautiful carbine.
After I clean my guns, I don't put them in any type of case or wrap them in rag's etc. I just leave them on a rack etc. and wipe them down with a gun oil [CLP] every few mo's. good luck.
I'm sure more good advice will follow.

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Originally Posted by JimF4M1s

And Carbines are still legal in California.

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Carbines are still legal here in California, but not in the paratrooper stock. That would make it an assault weapon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John Wyatt

Carbines are still legal here in California, but not in the paratrooper stock. That would make it an assault weapon.

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Yep, In fact M1 Carbines are one of the few semi-automatic long guns that will not be considered assault Weapons under the bn that takes effect 1-1-2017. Ruger Mini-14/30s, SKSs, and M1As also escaped.

So the stock was their biggest problem. Glad I don't live in California.

I read somewhere that the first run mag catch wouldn't hold the 30 rnd mags. Can I expect them to drop out often or do they generally stay in during firing?

Not shooting it yet, just wondering what to expect.

The first run mags had only the rear lugs to hold them in. They would shear and the mag would be useless. They added the side lug for strength. They'll be fine during your use, likely.

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Originally Posted by HDSledge

Will the mags marked M2 fall out?

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I believe those are aftermarket mags, so the quality could be questionable. - Bob

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Originally Posted by AFJon

Pretty clearly an Inland trigger housing (you can see the stamp). Mag release is marked WI.

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My bad. You are right I can also see the Inland mark. Using my old laptop. Is the trigger blued? Did early carbines have a parked or blued trigger?

That is a very nice carbine and it's in excellent condition. Also the photos of the parts are well done and are very sharp and clear. It appears the wood was sanded a bit but overall for this carbine not a very big negative, Ray

Quote:

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Originally Posted by USGI

I believe those are aftermarket mags, so the quality could be questionable. - Bob

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When did they add the side lugs? Not sure how old those M2 30rnd mags are but I'll try 'em out. Someone said the clip the holds them together is 80's. Correct? All the mags are loaded with old LC4 stamped ammo. (Lake City 1944 USGI?) Is that ok to shoot or is it too old or corrosive?

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Originally Posted by Detroit-1

My bad. You are right I can also see the Inland mark. Using my old laptop. Is the trigger blued? Did early carbines have a parked or blued trigger?

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Can't tell but here are a couple pics. I'm leaning toward blued since there is a slight difference in color. Darker. Is it blued or parked guys?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_6970-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_6969-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_6967-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rayg

That is a very nice carbine and it's in excellent condition. Also the photos of the parts are well done and are very sharp and clear. It appears the wood was sanded a bit but overall for this carbine not a very big negative, Ray

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The wood was bone dry and dirty. Following advice from another member here I took a dab of linseed oil and rubbed it on with a cloth, which came away with a lot of dirt. Not patina or finish, just black dirt. Then I rubbed it in with my hands until it got warm. 12 hours later it looks perfect. Probably had not been properly cleaned or preserved in decades from the look of it. Has the original first production rounded cutout corners. Learned about that from you guys, thanks. Rayg what else do you spot that looks like it may have been sanded?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_6963-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_6961-1.jpg

Thanks everyone. <0

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Originally Posted by HDSledge

When did they add the side lugs?

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Those were added after they found the rear lugs wouldn't hold...all the time.

How about that old ammo Jim? Thanks

The "jungle clips" are aftermarket items, 80's sounds about right. The brass cases are USGI Lake City 1944. If it doesn't look like it's been reloaded, I would shoot or just keep - that's up to you. None of the US made carbine ammo was corrosive. The trigger is blue as it should be. - Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by USGI

The "jungle clips" are aftermarket items, 80's sounds about right. The brass cases are USGI Lake City 1944. If it doesn't look like it's been reloaded, I would shoot or just keep - that's up to you. None of the US made carbine ammo was corrosive. The trigger is blue as it should be. - Bob

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Thanks Bob. I may keep a couple dozen since they are original to the collection of items as I received it.

Those M2 marked mags are also aftermarket. They are not GI.

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Originally Posted by jimb16

Those M2 marked mags are also aftermarket. They are not GI.

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Thanks. USGI mentioned that too. I Suspected it since the rubber boots came off and the blue underneath looked new. The originals show small spots on the finish under the rubber boots. I guess they were for keeping dirt out but attracted moisture and trapped it underneath which pitted the blue over time.

The trigger looks blued to me also. Someday I hope to own a fine carbine as good as yours.

OP. If you want a USGI 30 round magazine for the carbine

HARD BACK USGI 30 ROUND MAGAZINES, Dupage Trading

If those are real and not someone's knock off, that is a great price. Even with the $15.35 shipping they tack on.

Original hardbacks NIW? That's an odd find...almost impossible.

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Originally Posted by AFJon

OP. If you want a USGI 30 round magazine for the carbine

HARD BACK USGI 30 ROUND MAGAZINES, Dupage Trading

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimF4M1s

If those are real and not someone's knock off, that is a great price. Even with the $15.35 shipping they tack on.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Original hardbacks NIW? That's an odd find...almost impossible.

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Thanks for tip AFJon. Thanks to you too Jim(s). When I get it I'll post close up pics and you guys can let me know if my 50 bux and change was well spent.

(1) in stock right now - better hurry! - Bob

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Originally Posted by USGI

(1) in stock right now - better hurry! - Bob

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When I bought one there was only one left. Hmmm. Vewwy Intewestink.

They had some others that were split backs 90 bux sold out now. Aren't the solid backs are more collectible?

I believe the one they pictured is authentic. Let's see if you get the exact same one, including the wrap. They probably just haven't updated their site yet. - Bob

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Originally Posted by USGI

I believe the one they pictured is authentic. Let's see if you get the exact same one, including the wrap. They probably just haven't updated their site yet. - Bob

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You were right. They now list it as out of stock. Thanks again AFJon!!

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Originally Posted by HDSledge

You were right. They now list it as out of stock. Thanks again AFJon!!

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No problem. Over on the CMP forum there was a guy that bought 20 plus...he's probably going to flip then at $60 plus each.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HDSledge

They had some others that were split backs 90 bux sold out now. Aren't the solid backs are more collectible?

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I don't know their reasoning on the prices, but I would've had the early ones at $90 and the "split backs" at $40. I guess if they had about the same quantity of each, it made no difference. - Bob

The dark spots are thickened smelly oil. What is that stuff? Zero rust spots on the metal, great condition. I was really surprised. 47 bucks. Should have bought 10.

Swiping it with a bit of grease/oil and keeping it in the paper for now.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_7162-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_7163-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_7164-1.jpghttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...100_7165-1.jpg

Nice, nice...

fyi I found out they will have more in stock soon. Check the link and if anyone catches it when it happens post it plz thanks.