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Hi all,
I am new to the forum and to the milsurp. I recently acquired my first 2 milsurp rifles. A K31 and an M39.
Now that I have been bitten by the bug I was wondering where would be a good place to start looking for more. I am aware of some places like Classic Firearms, which is where I got my M39, and a couple of others but was hoping to get some suggestions on where to start looking online and so forth.
Thanks!
Unfortunately you are about two years too late getting started. It's a rough milsurp world out there right now. People seem to be hoarding guns right now, at least that's what my local gun shop says. They are buying but they are not bringing anything in to sell or trade. There are still some Warsaw Pact handguns out there. Gunshows are your best bet or a local gun trader group or some of the auction sites. It's all pretty much hit or miss also. Never know what will show but they don't last long, someone will snap them up pretty quick.
Aim Surplus is another source, J&G Sales also sometimes has interesting C&R stuff but are typically high on shipping. One thing I've noticed, especially with handguns, is surplus stuff is rarely getting C&R listed by name unless they qualify for C&R status being over 50 years old And most stuff over 50 got surplused off a long time ago. Southern Ohio Gun is another vendor but they have an even more mixed reputation than Classic. You'll get the most mileage out of your C&R at places like local auctions and browsing Gunbroker, versus getting them fresh out of the crate from some retailer.
Right now I'd pick up a Yugo M59/66, Dan's Ammo has a good price on them and if you really have money to burn has a consecutive crate (If I could liquidate my collection fast enough I'd do it). Plenty of vendors also have Polish P64s at very reasonable prices too though cheap ammo seems to have vanished and the supply of Yugo mausers still seems pretty good. It seems like Romanian Tokarevs are beginning to dry up though. Mosins come in spurts as people find crates in the corners of warehouses, like a run of Yugo M59s that recently hit the market locally.
Anything that's been made or refurbished in the former Yugoslavia is likely to be excellent value for money and good quality, in my opinion, and better than Soviet produced items.
If your looking for the odd piece ask
I might have it I will ship any c&r firearm
most of the time its about 30 to 35 for USPS Priority mail
Sound advice thus far.
I would like to congradulate you on the foundation of your collection. K-31 & M-39 are a sound foundation on which to build a collection. Beware the Enfield bug. It bites hard.
I concur with Hooked about the sound advice and also I second the advice about gun shows. Sometimes you run into a rifle or handgun that is different than what you would find at most online stores and part of the fun is the negotiating. I'm in the same boat about looking for more milsurps. I'm getting in several more arisakas from a friend who is thinning out his massive collection and wanted to give me them as a gift. However rifles like k98s, berthiers, and lebels are next to impossible to find in my area. I've been hunting within an hour driving radius in all directions for five years and I have yet to come across a k98 on someone's table for sale. Keep up the hunt and as always please post pics of whatever you do find.:thup:
Thanks all for the advice. I really appreciate it.
I think my next targets will be an SKS, some form of Mauser, and one of those Polish 64s or something similar.
But most of all, I really, really want a Garand, and a 1903A3. I know they're pricey but I think it will be well worth the price. So any advice on those would be great as well!
I will work on getting some pictures up of the milsurps I have so far.
Lots of Garand's and O3A3's at shows. Possibly the most common milsurps at shows these days. Guys that have them usually have half a dozen to a dozen each. Prices are higher than most others but I've seen reasonably priced ones at shows. If you qualify for CMP purchases, Garands are available there at times.
Occasionally I find some in Pawn shops. The ones in the not so nice parts of town have reasonable prices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn243
Forgive me for my ignorance, but what is CMP and how do I qualify?
Civilian marksmanship program. You'll have to go to the site to see if you qualify. There are quite a few different ways. Being a veteran and a member of a gun club or a firearms instructor or some combination are some of them.
Civilian Marksmanship Program |
Not sure if the Garands have dried up or they are just trying to catch up on orders. Very little avaliable now. CMP should have 1911s avaliable at some point. Sign up now before the rush starts.
Very fine folks at the CMP. One requirement can be met by joining the Garand Collectors Association. The $25 membership is worth the cost if only for the GCA Journal published several times each year.
Hey guys,
I've been scouring some local gun shops and I've come across a couple of rifles I was hoping to get some opinions on.
The first one is a K98. The barrel band is marked 1942. It also is marked "BNZ". Not really sure what this means, I've been looking around and can't seem to find much on it. Any thoughts? Just looking for advice on what to look for. It looked like all of the pieces had the same serial number, as I guess the Germans were a bit crazy about marking all the components of their rifles. They were asking $600, seems like a reasonable price to me but just wanted to ask about it before I pulled the trigger.
The second rifle was an Enfield No. 4 Mk 2. I don't know much about these rifles yet. They mentioned they think it was Irish Contract. I'm not really sure what the significance of that is but just some advice on what to look for would be greatly appreciated as well. They were asking the same price as the K98 but I'm still checking prices to see if that's reasonable.
Thanks!
Really hard to estimate prices without seeing photos. An all matching K98 that has not been molested will go for over $1000 these days but every single number on every single part has to match including the stock. $600 is probably OK even if it isn't all matching so long as it is complete. Unless it's beat to crap, rusty, etc. K98's are getting harder to find and their prices have been going up. Russian Captures are probably going for $500 these days but I haven't even seen one of them for sale in a long while.
No4 MK2 a bit harder to estimate. Sounds like it could be one of those that is in near mint condition as that's how they tend to label the Irish Contract rifles. Hard to say if it is an Irish Contract. $600 for one of these definitely depends on the condition. It is post WWII if that matters.
I stumbled on to that trick while out of state on a fishing trip. A very nice SMLE was the result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent
Be careful with K98ks that are matching. If the bolt is not blued and there are modern import marks on the barrels that say "Mitchells" walk away unless you want a shooter, those were renumbered and put together. That would be a pretty good price for a truly all matching gun, but very few are. Typically if major parts like the bolt, receiver, and barrel match you are doing good and it would probably be worth $600 if the bore and crown are clean. Stock should match as well. All the other small parts matching, and that means everything, is icing on the cake and those guns can go as high as $2000.
CMP is just temporarily sold out to catch up on orders, my guess is December or possibly November they will open up again to a deluge of orders. Also, while not a C&R item, when you see surplus ammo for a gun you own or caliber you want get it. You never know when there will be more to come around and often times it's more expensive with each following batch. Then you have some calibers that are going the way of .303, where once the surplus is gone it's gone for good. I suspect the spam cans of Greek HXP .30-06 are at this point.
Be very careful of k98s, especially at gun shops. They usually (9 times out of 10) know what they have and price them accordingly, most of the time way above market value. There are many humped together pieces out there that were made solely to make money. Mitchell's also has the MM stamp on their older imports so look for that as well. Also there are things like Russian captures that were force matched and an easy way to tell is if there is an X mark somewhere on the receiver along with a shellac finish on the stock and an electropenciled number on the bolt. As far as the BNZ marking is concerned that is the code for which factory made that rifle and is memory serves me a BNZ 42 is a very common maker and year for a k98.
As for the enfield the "Irish Contract" is mainly just a selling ploy. There were some that were issued to the Irish but unless its serial number falls in that range and the seller can prove it then it is just another No4 Mk2. Without solid proof and assuming it's in decent shape (not rusted out, wood refinished, etc.) in my area it would be a $350-$400 gun at best. Only with the right proof would that rifle be anywhere near what that seller is asking.
Thanks everyone that is a lot of helpful information.
I remember that the K98's serial numbers looked odd to me that I couldn't quite put my finger on, but the comment about the electro pencil made me realize that this is what someone must have used to put the serial numbers on. They looked kind of scratchy and weren't stamped like I was expecting and have seen on other milsurps. I'll have to go take a look again today and use some of these tips to better help identify it.
For the enfield, the stock was in quite nice shape, a lot nicer then most that I have seen online and the few others that I have seen in person in the past few days. I recently watched a video where a guy picked up a nearly un-issued enfield for $500 so the $600 asking price is way too high as this rifle while in nice condition, was definitely not in un-issued condition.
If it has electro pencil markings it is probably a Russian Capture. Should also have an X on the receiver, might have a purplish colored stock. If that is what it is, I'd grade it on overall condition. Like I said in an earlier post, they have not been available for sale where I've seen them so I don't know the current going rate. $600 may not be bad if condition is good although I think it's pushing it.
Too late for this advice, already been biten:madsmile: