Grinding M1 Garand Bolts

Has anybody ever heard of grinding an Garand bolt to make it head space properly? I bought a T2 Garand last week that was supposed to be a T2 on an Italian receiver with a 308 barrel. When I pulled it apart, I found that the bolt was ground in 4 spots, the barrel could be undone by hand and the gas cylinder was at .532. I sent it back to the retailer selling them in Canada.
I have built 6 Garands and I can't find any where in my shop manual that this practice is acceptable. The retailer states that it was "proofed", so they are deemed safe. I found in the manual that the op rod lug is not to be altered in any way, mine was.
Just wondering if any of you has seen this done.

Thanks.... Bob

We have a thread about that whole subject currently. https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=57609

And short answer, there was such a practice as lapping, but grinding isn't that.

Thanks Jim,
I saw the other post, but I was trying to see if there was any information on the practice of grinding to make head space. I always thought lapping was on bolt action rifle, not semi's. (I could be wrong on this one). I always ream my chamber when fitting the bolt to a new barrel, so I was disappointed to see the bolt ground down. I was trying to focus less on the supplier and the Canadian Forum and more on the knowledge in the US to get info on this practice if there is one.

I've done a few too, the last being a 7.62 on an SA receiver. I had a short chamber and finish reamed too...I worked with the existing bolt and there have been no issues, these guys were slapping stuff together. The barrel MUST come tight to begin with. Locktite doesn't count. They could have either mixed and matched parts until the found something that fit, or set the ones aside that didn't set up and do the proper job later. There's the ones that go together like magic and those that give trouble. I can sort out the problem children but not after the bolt's been damaged beyond repair by grinding through the surface or welding...a barrel that won't index is another thing all together. If that rifle had been GIVEN to me, I'd sort it out and carry on. Since you paid, it had to return to sender.

Lapping... But, it ain't grinding or welding... By the way, I too am in Canada, you don't HAVE to go to the US for help.

Lapping bolt on Garand.avi - YouTube

Commercially bolts would be lap to fit the contact points on the receiver. Headspacing would be achieved by reaming the chamber to the proper depth. In the military (US) the armorer would fit a bolt from a pile that were on hand until one properly fitted. Grinding is big no-no since the grinding could go below the heating of the lugs on the bolt and be extremely dangerous. Given the numerous versions of the Garand that the Italians fielded it possible several parts from other versions were mixed in with the parts kits and replacement parts. Parts are parts. Sadly full guns could be imported back into the US. We have seen parts kits without the receivers and barrels.

--fjruple

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Originally Posted by fjruple

Grinding is big no-no since the grinding could go below the heating of the lugs on the bolt and be extremely dangerous

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Agreed, and they were working from a pile of parts so they should have selected more carefully instead of grab and force fit. It could have worked out with a bit of care.

Thanks for your quick answers.
Jim, I realized you were from Victoria just after I hit post. I grew up there. So, you are right that we don't have to go south to get answers, but I find there is a lot of experience particularly on the M1's and some of the other US made WW1 & WW2 rifles I own. Its the numbers of 320+ million to 36 million people. Also, thank you for the lapping video. Very informative.
On the Canadian sites, it always seems to turn into a ****ing match with who has the best answer. A lot of chest puffing. It gets frustrating, so I went searching for a site that I could ask a question and expect good answers without being schooled.

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Originally Posted by Airbob10

a ****ing match

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Originally Posted by Airbob10

A lot of chest puffing.

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Originally Posted by Airbob10

It gets frustrating,

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And that's why I refuse to make even one single suggestion or post in any forum on GunNutz...or over on Culver's way back when for that matter...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

And that's why I refuse to make even one single suggestion or post in any forum on GunNutz

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It is a silly place, their classifieds offer a wide variety of opportunities, but beyond that it is of limited usefulness as a learning resource.

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Originally Posted by Sentryduty

their classifieds

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I deal there regularly, and have done some very good and profitable business. I just don't even open any other forums. It's like children screaming in the darkness...

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Originally Posted by Airbob10

Thanks for your quick answers.
Jim, I realized you were from Victoria just after I hit post. I grew up there. So, you are right that we don't have to go south to get answers, but I find there is a lot of experience particularly on the M1's and some of the other US made WW1 & WW2 rifles I own. Its the numbers of 320+ million to 36 million people. Also, thank you for the lapping video. Very informative.
On the Canadian sites, it always seems to turn into a ****ing match with who has the best answer. A lot of chest puffing. It gets frustrating, so I went searching for a site that I could ask a question and expect good answers without being schooled.

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Guys - in case there is any confusion, we purposefully have an international membership here sharing info about military surplus firearms - moreso than some other sites, but milsurps.com is owned by a Canadian and founded by Canadians - a cool factoid if you are from the great white north :)

The "staff" is made up from people all over the world and we like the cosmopolitan nature of our community.

Oh, and PS, welding or grinding on M1 lugs is not an accepted practise ANYWHERE. It is possible to build up a Garand lug with the right TIG process and rod, but it would involve pre-heating the bolt, using the right rod alloy, re-machining the lugs to the right angle in a precision fixture, annealing the bolt to stress relieve the weld and the work hardening from machining operations, then re-heat treating the bolt to USGI spec. The whole affair would then have to be tested for porosity or other indications such as stress cracking using either LPI dye penetrant testing, magnetic particle inspection, or magnaflux/x-ray testing as well as hardness tested to confirm everything went well and the bolt would then be re-parkerized.

Nobody does this in practise because the bolts are still readily available and are often interchangeable if everything else is within specification.

The Tippo 2 guns being sold by in Canada right now did NOT follow the above noted process to weld the bolts, I can iron-clad guarantee that. Heck, the photos being posted around would be called visual failures.

Thanks for clarifying who founded this site. I appreciate the international membership because of the vast knowledge base.
As for the T2's, I have sent mine back looking for a refund of all monies paid. The company said it will not pay for my shipping charges unless they can prove it is unsafe. All they have to do is turn the barrel by hand and it will come undone. As far as I know, a lose barrel on a rifle is not safe. Also. because the rifles were "proofed", they are claiming the rifles with the welded and/or grounded bolts are safe to fire. I just hope nobody gets hurt firing one of these rifles.

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Originally Posted by Airbob10

Thanks for clarifying who founded this site. I appreciate the international membership because of the vast knowledge base.
As for the T2's, I have sent mine back looking for a refund of all monies paid. The company said it will not pay for my shipping charges unless they can prove it is unsafe. All they have to do is turn the barrel by hand and it will come undone. As far as I know, a lose barrel on a rifle is not safe. Also. because the rifles were "proofed", they are claiming the rifles with the welded and/or grounded bolts are safe to fire. I just hope nobody gets hurt firing one of these rifles.

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I would agree - a barrel that is not tight to the action is a defect that should be covered by warranty. It might not be "unsafe" depending how loose it is, but it will not hold zero and will not give consistent headspace measurement.

The correct fix would be to roll peen the barrel shoulder and re-tighten the barrel. If this does not fix the issue, then on a barrel that needs to index precisely like a grand and where length cannot be easily altered, a new barrel would need to be installed.

Another fix would be to install a breeching washer. But this would not address any of the other issues reported. I do not know if the miseries which have been documented are the exceptions, or if they are typical.

I should think a breeching washer would push your headspace away...like you say, doesn't address the rest.

It really is sad to me the company is making the consumer prove it's unsafe. The obvious heat affected zone on the bolt should be the give away and the difference in hardness of the metal at the weld/grind, HAZ, and rest of the bolt would interesting. It has me curious about German proofing practices though - are they really just concerned with it surviving one proof shot and not overall craftsmanship? It wouldn't be shocking given the existence of Rohm revolvers. To me it's like me using Bondo or sheet metal screws to hold a rusty frame rail together; sure it will work for a little while but do you really want to be in that car in the event of a wreck or drive it for another 10,000 miles and hope it holds?

Well, the rifle finally arrived at the supplier yesterday. Had to ship across Canada. Now, the ball is in their court to make it right. My rifle had the only barrel issue that I know of. So, I know I will get my purchase price back, but still waiting to see if they honor the return of all shipping monies. Little over $150.00 total for both ways. I will pursue this legally just for my shipping money out of principle if they decide that the barrel is not a safety issue. They breached by selling a dangerous gun as well as not selling a real T2 rifle as per advertised.
I will keep you all posted on the outcome.

I think we are all to old to deal with people who don't do research. Most people don't realize that the
majority of surplus firearm. have been rebuilt a few times by someone. So when one does the inspection
and replace worn parts etc, you have done some injustice to the purchaser.
Then the other issue is that they refuse to accept that one could have a collection of firearms for decades
and the condition is really excellent,matching and original. I think people hide their collection's because
of this. Try to sell something, you have to except insults and critics as part of the deal.

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Originally Posted by can14

I think we are all to old to deal with people who don't do research. Most people don't realize that the
majority of surplus firearm. have been rebuilt a few times by someone. So when one does the inspection
and replace worn parts etc, you have done some injustice to the purchaser.
Then the other issue is that they refuse to accept that one could have a collection of firearms for decades
and the condition is really excellent,matching and original. I think people hide their collection's because
of this. Try to sell something, you have to except insults and critics as part of the deal.

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Don't know how this fits here, this is regards to a company that was selling rifles that had been cobbled together and sold with barrels that were physically lose. To tighten headspace they'd used weld on the bearing surfaces...so let the insults begin...