1903A4

Several months ago I threw a couple of bids in at an auction. I kinda forgot about the bids, but last Friday the auction house advised me that I had won both rifles.One was for a 1903A1 NM rifle. SRS was able to confirm that it had been sold by the DCM as an NM and even found the original sales ticket. Unfortunately, it appears the stock may not be original to the rifle.

The other rifle I bid on and won was an 03A4. Based on my experience with the NM rifle, I'm almost afraid to post pics of the 03A4.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fQynjpg1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...zhXwjpg1-1.jpg

Description advised:

A US MILITARY .30-06 CAL KEYSTONE 'M1903 A4' BOLT-MAGAZINE SNIPER RIFLE, serial no. 3420685, Built on the M1903 A3 rifle, 24in. barrel, no fore-sight, the muzzle with 'R.A.' over the ordnance bomb and '3-44', fore-part with bayonet lug and 'R' mark, receiver with 'US REMINGTON MODEL 03-A3' marking, the serial number rotated to the right side of the receiver ring (correct for the Sniper variant to remain visible with the scope mounted) and mounted with correct later Korean war era Lyman 'Alaskan' B-prefix serial numbered scope, no. B4851 with rubber eye-piece, Parkerized receiver and barrel, R marked low profile concave bolt, stock with bolt notch and various letter stamps 'W', 'N', 'U', and also with the 'K' stamp for 'Keystone', steel buttplate with square stamp chequering and trap, in tidy overall condition

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Originally Posted by Calfed

I'm almost afraid to post pics of the 03A4.

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Don't be afraid, we just want to see it.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Don't be afraid, we just want to see it.

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Looks good to me. Originality of the stock will depend on cartouches on the left side of the stock and in front of the trigger guard. The bolt cut out looks good, but a picture of the cut out with the bolt lifted will confirm.

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Originally Posted by m1903rifle

Looks good to me. Originality of the stock will depend on cartouches on the left side of the stock and in front of the trigger guard. The bolt cut out looks good, but a picture of the cut out with the bolt lifted will confirm.

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Thanks. I'll take more and better pics and provide a better description when it arrives at my FFL.

Nice score!
I expect to see you shooting that at our match.

Thanks, Matt. I'm going to miss the match this month, but next month for sure.

The 1903 NM and the 03A4 arrived at my FFL. Both rifles look pretty good, but I can't take them home for 10 days, due to California's infamous 10 -day "cooling off" period. I was able to grab a few pictures at my FFL's place of business before they went into the safe.

The stock is in pretty good shape, has a "K" in the mag cutoff cutout and a few miscellaneous letters stamped into the side of the stock.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pLFQjpg1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...gp4Vjpg1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ISMQjpg1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MTUajpg1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...idiyjpg1-1.jpg


The scope mount looks legit and the scope is a B-series Lyman. It has fine crosshairs and the optics are clear.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...A61Rjpg1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0fbfjpg1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...p6gdjpg1-1.jpg

The barrel is in great shape and gauges just under a "1" on the CMP muzzle gauge. it looked like a 2 groove.

Better pictures in 10 days.

Very interesting rifle, very nice. 2 groove? Isn't that strange for an 03A4?

03A4 is reworked, bolt is not blued as it would had originally been. And the K in the stock identifies it as a replacement. Probably the barrel is a replacement also? 3-44 sounds anyway a bit late for a 3.4xx.xxx serial 03A4.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Very interesting rifle, very nice. 2 groove? Isn't that strange for an 03A4?

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Not at all unusual, especially for an arsenal rebuilt rifle such as this one.

Unfamiliar to me is all...but we don't get to see many A4's here at all.

The scope is installed incorrectly. Both rings should be behind the deflection and elevation drums for proper eye relief. It'll knock your head off the way it's set up now. That also tells me the scope was installed post military service.

Called, couple of questions and comments:

1. Does the scope have a sliding metal sunshade over the objective end?

2. Are there any GI drawing numbers on the scope in the 7,nnn,nnn range?

3. Keystone was an OEM supplier to Remington as well as a supplier of spare stocks to Ordnance. I have an A4 which was assembled a couple of months after yours with a Keystone scant stock and all factory proof, sub inspector and final inspection/acceptance stamps. It's been in my passion for nearly 50 years having come back to this country via Interterms. Both the stock and receiver have Thai military marks. No indications of any rebuilds but a few minor low echelon repairs to the stock.

4. Last is a pic from an October 43 TM 9-2200 showing an Alaskan mounted as Brian described in the preceding post. Shortly after this manual was published Ordnance finally accepted the fact that No Alaskans would be delivered before A4 production came to an end.
Those few ALASKAN's Including M73's and derivatives such as the M81 and M82 used on the
A4 were just incidental applications.

As always Jim great info on the 1903 A4. I think you need to write a book on them so that we have all the information long term.

What do you make of the 3-44 barrel on a 3.4 million serial range? Replacement?

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Originally Posted by mdarnell19

What do you make of the 3-44 barrel on a 3.4 million serial range? Replacement?

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Almost certainly a replacement. Immediately after rifle (action) production ceased in February Ordnance placed several large orders for spare parts including barrels. A4 assembly and shipments (on Jan and Feb 44 barreled actions) would continue through the summer of 1944 as scopes trickled in from Weaver. The early spare parts would have been used as damaged rifles were turned in or received from battlefield salvage.

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

The scope is installed incorrectly. Both rings should be behind the deflection and elevation drums for proper eye relief. It'll knock your head off the way it's set up now. That also tells me the scope was installed post military service.

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I've heard (maybe Jim can confirm) that most of these rifles were sold sans optics. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the scope was obtained and mounted later. Even the ones that came with optics were sold with the scope dismounted...or so I've heard.

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JGaynor

Called, couple of questions and comments:

1. Does the scope have a sliding metal sunshade over the objective end?

2. Are there any GI drawing numbers on the scope in the 7,nnn,nnn range?

3. Keystone was an OEM supplier to Remington as well as a supplier of spare stocks to Ordnance. I have an A4 which was assembled a couple of months after yours with a Keystone scant stock and all factory proof, sub inspector and final inspection/acceptance stamps. It's been in my passion for nearly 50 years having come back to this country via Interterms. Both the stock and receiver have Thai military marks. No indications of any rebuilds but a few minor low echelon repairs to the stock.

4. Last is a pic from an October 43 TM 9-2200 showing an Alaskan mounted as Brian described in the preceding post. Shortly after this manual was published Ordnance finally accepted the fact that No Alaskans would be delivered before A4 production came to an end.
Those few ALASKAN's Including M73's and derivatives such as the M81 and M82 used on the
A4 were just incidental applications.

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Thanks for all the A4 information, Jim.

I did not see a sliding metal sunshade on my rifle.

Where would the drawing numbers likely appear on the scope?

There are letters stamped on the stock near the mag cutoff. Can you identify what they are?

I would love to see some pics of your A4.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ISMQjpg1-1.jpg

The one my uncle got from the DCM came sans scope. It eventually ended up with his son. I asked him several times over the years if he had shot it yet and he would say no and then said one time that he probably would now that he got sights for it. I said "SPLAIN Lucy! and he said it came with scope mounts on but no scope. I didn't have the heart to explain to him he just took a 4 thousand dollar rifle into a $800 rifle :crying::yikes::nono:

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Originally Posted by TDH

I didn't have the heart to explain to him he just took a 4 thousand dollar rifle into a $800 rifle

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Kind of too bad. Even to get the wrong optic and mount it would be better than that. Mind, if you didn't damage it you could always remove them again. It would always show the front sight marks though, which would always cast a shadow of doubt.

I've mentioned it before that I had a chat with Jim Land at one of the NRA annual meetings and he told me that the USMC used five different types of scope on the 1903A4. Weaver 330 and M73B1, Lyman Alaskan, M81, M82 and M84. Any combination is correct as far as I'm concerned. Especially on rifles that have been through ordnance rebuild programs. Many were done just down the road from here in Augusta, Georgia. I have two, one that came fitted with an M73B1, (still has it's NRA sales tag), and another I bought at a show in Alabama that came with a Lyman Alaskan that had been fitted by the previous owner. It sports an M82 now and is my favorite., There is no comparison IMHO between the little Weaver scopes and the Lymans which were really pretty good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TDH

The one my uncle got from the DCM came sans scope. It eventually ended up with his son. I asked him several times over the years if he had shot it yet and he would say no and then said one time that he probably would now that he got sights for it. I said "SPLAIN Lucy! and he said it came with scope mounts on but no scope. I didn't have the heart to explain to him he just took a 4 thousand dollar rifle into a $800 rifle :crying::yikes::nono:

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Even worse!

I have a $4000 rifle that someone turned into a $300 rifle...

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../m4d8dmM-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../wrNvJ3F-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../InhORyu-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../zNsRndM-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

I've mentioned it before that I had a chat with Jim Land at one of the NRA annual meetings and he told me that the USMC used five different types of scope on the 1903A4. Weaver 330 and M73B1, Lyman Alaskan, M81, M82 and M84. Any combination is correct as far as I'm concerned. Especially on rifles that have been through ordnance rebuild programs. Many were done just down the road from here in Augusta, Georgia. I have two, one that came fitted with an M73B1, (still has it's NRA sales tag), and another I bought at a show in Alabama that came with a Lyman Alaskan that had been fitted by the previous owner. It sports an M82 now and is my favorite., There is no comparison IMHO between the little Weaver scopes and the Lymans which were really pretty good.

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The Alaskan on my new one is in good shape and the optics are clear and sharp. I've never looked through a Weaver 330, but if it is anything like my Weaver J 2.5 (which I think was the successor to the 330 series), they had to have been inferior to the Lyman's.

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Originally Posted by Calfed

I have a $4000 rifle that someone turned into a $300 rifle

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Nice! Excellent choice...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Calfed

I've heard (maybe Jim can confirm) that most of these rifles were sold sans optics. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the scope was obtained and mounted later. Even the ones that came with optics were sold with the scope dismounted...or so I've heard.

---------- Post added at 08:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 PM ----------



Thanks for all the A4 information, Jim.

I did not see a sliding metal sunshade on my rifle.

Where would the drawing numbers likely appear on the scope?

There are letters stamped on the stock near the mag cutoff. Can you identify what they are?

I would love to see some pics of your A4.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ISMQjpg1-1.jpg

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Many of the a4's were prepared for longterm storage after being rebuilt. In other words dipped in cosmoline. Scopes were typically stored in weather/moisture resistant boxes or bags either from Weaver or post rebuild. The A4's that I have seen from DCM sales all came without scopes. My personal A4 came in a batch or rifles from Thailand, probably Siamese Mausers. It did not have a scope or rings.

GI drawing numbers on M81/M82 Scopes appear in several spots. On the Caps for the W&E knobs and base of the W/E turret. Also i believe on the retiring rings for the lenses and on the interior of the rubber eyecup.

I have not seen letter stamps on the left side of the rifle like yours before. Not sure of the meaning.

---------- Post added at 02:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by mdarnell19

As always Jim great info on the 1903 A4. I think you need to write a book on them so that we have all the information long term.

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Thanks for the kind words however i don't think I have a book in me.

Most of what i know i have gleaned from published sources:

Bill Hansen "Snipers, Snarls and Snafus" The Journal Of the Remington Society of America (fall 20040

Clark Campbell "The '03 Springfield Era" 2003

and a number of others

Thanks, Jim.

I'll look the scope over carefully when I bring the rifle home.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Calfed

Even worse!

I have a $4000 rifle that someone turned into a $300 rifle...

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../m4d8dmM-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../wrNvJ3F-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../InhORyu-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../zNsRndM-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 PM ----------



The Alaskan on my new one is in good shape and the optics are clear and sharp. I've never looked through a Weaver 330, but if it is anything like my Weaver J 2.5 (which I think was the successor to the 330 series), they had to have been inferior to the Lyman's.

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I have to say that is a very pretty classic sporting conversion though, lovely stock, I bet she shoots well.

When I take my Sniper build to the range here in the UK, (not a common rifle here) people are always very pleasantly surprised by the crisp sight picture and how well the little Lyman works with the rifle.

In the 1950's converting GI rifles into hunting rifles was common. People would have not thought twice about such work. Sad but true.

I guess in the 50's it wasn't a classic rifle, just an old cheap surplus rifle ripe for a new life as a sporter.

Here in the UK, original Lee Enfield No4T snipers served as the basis for target rifle conversions right into the 1980's.

Thanks, mrclark. The sported A4 is a good shooter. The barrel was just as highly polished as the reat of the rifle, so there are no marks left. However, it may be the original barrel--it still has the front sight millings, so it is at least a military barrel and has not been cut.