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Folks, I have a Colt M1903 32 cal pistol shipped to England by Colt in 1921. The colt has London acceptance/view and early (1904) Broad arrow markings, and no import or export markings. It has a Black (Suncorite) finish.
My question is when did the UK REME call for Suncorite coating? I was under the impression it wasn’t until WW2 (cira 1944). So when would my M1903 have been treated? Thanks Jim
It was introduced as an over paint for the new phosphate finish applied after late 1944. If I was you I'd be questioning whether what you have is actually spirit based Sunkorite.
Pics would really help us here...at least for part. Still it will be hard to determine if it's Sunkorite...Quote:
Originally Posted by f15guy71
The Colt 1903 was standard issue for SOE. I had a documented one once that was new in the kraft box. It's very possible that it saw a coat of Suncorite 259 baked on after 1944.
I could be wrong Brian but if it was done by us, it'd be done over a newly beaded and phosphated finish. It's GOT to adhere to something during the fast bake (or very slow dry to cure if you ain't using the oven)) process.
Hey, F-15 guy, let's see a large pic of your avtar with some detail......
Folks, Thanks for the comments. I'll try and attach a pic. Here we go:
http://<a href="http://s1046.photobu...Brit%202_1.jpg[/IMG]
Sorry it didn't work!!!!!!!!
Folks, I Think I'll Try again. Here goes:
Peter Here you go: F15E over Afgan waving Pittsburgh Steelers Terrible Towels:
Yes, it sure looks like Suncorite. And as mentioned lots of sub-units used them.
Yep, looks like it and it's got the UK Government property mark too. Arrow on slide to rear of 1903 and on body to rear of safety. Mil proof behind horse on slide.
GREAT photo F-15. Beautiful Country....., shame about most of the people!
The 1920s autos were ordered for undercover work in Ireland. They usually have a few numbers (two digits for year of issue) stamped on the frame behind the trigger. Apparently it stayed in the inventory thru WWII and was later refinished. A very nice piece with history.
Breakeyp, Thanks I think you summarized it nicely. Thanks to all- Great Comments- Regards- Jim.
I wonder how that can be substantiated Paul and most respectfully disagree - with a great deal of trepidation I hasten to say! I worked with 'an Intelligence Officer, a Major' several years ago who used to advise us on '.....certain matters' that I have spoken of in roundabout ways on the forum. The first thing he has said many, many times and would have said about this is that once you make an item special or make it a one-off or eliminate serial numbers or no serial number or mark in a certain way - you know the sort of thing - it is absolutely no longer suitable for undercover or covert work. Because, well....., everyone on the other side immediately KNOWS where it's from!
With UK Military proof and ownership marks the pistol is useless for covert or undercover work. It's British Army or at least British Government
Peter, I agree intel connection is difficult to establish. From Colt Hammerless Auto pistols by Brunner, page 98, the only thing we know is “Over 3000 were shipped there (England) in 1921, some or all of which were acquired by the British government, judging by the number that have turned up in recent years with military marking.” I think this is the most that can be said of mine. It has military markings and the serial number falls in the 1921 range.
I didn’t envision this thread would drift into a Covert usage discussion. That would be great if it could be proven.
I really only wondered when an early Colt would have received Suncorite treatment, since all I could determine is that REME directed Suncorite first appeared about 1944. I don’t think it is a large stretch to assume my gun remained in military inventory from 1921 thru WW2 when it was refinished with Suncorite. My thoughts. Again -Thanks for the great comments. Regards- Jim.
The only thing I can add is that a General Officer could demand about any pistol he wanted for carry, higher gets even more. It wouldn't be any stretch at all to believe this was owned for a period of time by one of those...therefore allowing it to be procured, refurbed, marked and remain in inventory by the Govt' UK...
I hope that a much enlarged, framed picture of that previous avatar, the Pittsburg Steelers is hanging in the board room of their main office or foyer.
The early pistols would require the full phosphate and Suncorite treatment as they were polish blued. The later Parkerized pistols like the one I had from the WWII era would only require degreasing and a coat of paint baked on if the phosphate finish was still good.
So do I. Regards- Jim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Well spotted arrow Peter, it's got to be a rare piece, if only it could talk, I bet it would have a fascinating story to tell!
The 1920 vintage guns were ordered for concealed use in Ireland. .455 revolvers were easily identified when carried concealed. There should be some numbers on the frame between grip and the trigger. That is the date of issue.
Mr. Penn at the Imperial War Museum showed one to me and that was the story. During the same trip, I saw another one at Jeremy Tenniswood's shop. I don't find it to be an odd purchase given the Walther PPK .22 rimfire pistols inspected in Germany and issued to police women in Norfthern Ireland abouit 20 years ago. It seems to me a .32 beats a .22 any day.
I quite agree with you, for example the US Navy order of Welrod pistols complete with BU numbers makes it kind of ludicrous to suggest the source wouldn't be identified.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
It seems that BreakeyP's suggestion of M. 1903 pistols being superior for "concealed carry" while in "plain clothes", has been misinterpreted to be some sort of clandestine service "infiltrators/fifth columnists" with deniable arms.
---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:22 PM ----------
Canadian General Officers being issued Browning M.1910s (into the 1990s if not currently) and US General Officers being issued Colt M.1903 & M.1908s...Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
We brought in two of these Walther PPKs in .22 last year, Both were suncorited and came in Plastic Walther boxes. Both boxes had Nato Stock numbers and Donnington stickers. Before that i didn't realise such a thing existed in British Service.Quote:
Originally Posted by breakeyp
The most desirable ones too...Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon P
I also have a Walther PP in 22lr, finished in Suncroite and marked with a P indicating upgrade to the firing pin (I believe). Reportedly it was from a Colt Contract to UK in the 1970s . It was re-imported to the US. Sweet gun and a great shooter. Thanks to all for the responses to my initial thread. Warm regards- Jim.
Here is my example, finally, did not have pictures of it in the photo bank. It too has the Suncorite over finish and the 1921 proofs. Also like the previous M1903 it has the later wooden grips that must of been replaced during WWII.