I trying to find a picture or the actual thread or post regarding a Chest with a Lithgow SMLE and a Owen SMG bayonet, not sure if the rifle was a sniper one or standard but seem to recall the chest, rifle and bayonet.
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I trying to find a picture or the actual thread or post regarding a Chest with a Lithgow SMLE and a Owen SMG bayonet, not sure if the rifle was a sniper one or standard but seem to recall the chest, rifle and bayonet.
Yes, I see it but reference what we spoke about...he states that..." Chucked a few other bits and pieces in to make up for the fact the aiming stand isn't- I had the camera sitting on it!"
So is it the way they issued them or did he add those for artistic reason?
Thanks Henry,
Jim, at least I'm not loosing my marbles (yet) and there was/is a picture...... there was a mention of the Owen bayonets in another thread or post, maybe Son or others from down under could shed some light on the issue of Owen SMG bayonets to snipers.
I never thought that, yes I'm sure one of them will be able to confirm or deny. Issue of a bayonet of any kind to a sniper is just one more thing to carry though...Quote:
Originally Posted by bigduke6
Thinking that myself but makes sense for a smaller version of the 1907.......
Annanuvverfing..... If he put the bayonet on his rifle, the accuracy would diminish - sort of defeating the object of a sniper rifle really. And he's already got access to an SMG or a pistol. So what would a sniper REALLY need a bayonet for. It should always be looked upon as the last desperate means of mechanical defiance. Just my opinion based on nothing more that having been the snipers Armourer ....50 years ago this year!
Showing your age there Peter..... But it all stems back from the Discussion forum as I mentioned I'd be keeping one of the Owen bayonets..... I don't know what the Australian sniper had or used etc, but I do remember the pic in the link what Henry posted, as BAR said it could of been Son's artistic side......
Is the HT sniper chest the same as a Bren gun chest??
Agreed, that ends that then...now for a Scotch...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
All I have out of that lot in the pic is the big, green box it is all housed in, oh, and a bayonet.
It's a start, I suppose.
All OZ soldiers were issued with a bayonet, (except Meds) so I don't see why snipers would be exempt.
Cinders had a AAB83 from an ex Sniper showing the issue and withdrawal of kit to that Individual. Bayonet and Sniper rifle.
Where this record came undone is that it only shows DEMOB. Issue, there would have been other AAB83's for the Units this soldier served in, showing what was actually issued in those timeframes, the last book depicted only shows both issue and withdrawal on the same day, so cannot be a reliable indicator, as was stated by me and received a bit of flack when this was originally posted by Cinders.
Attachment 76064
What I'm saying is that a sniper rifle wouldn't come with a bayonet as part of the CES.
It might be issued on the '......that's what everyone gets issued with basis'. A bit like those DRAWERS, cellular - or underpants to you and me. Also known as DRAWERS, Dracula. Even though you had your own comfortable Marks and Spencer undies and socks (that my mum used to send out occasionally), you were still issued with them by the Army. Because........ that's how it was done!
Our equivalent of the AAB83 was the AFB-1157.
The pic I put together more as a possible equipment example than anything else. I had not been able to find any reference to what might have been issued from the crate... but then the crate for the Lithgow HT's was not utilised like the No4T transit chest.
The No4 came in a box with the rifle's gear. One box, one rifle. Everything the sniper and his observer needed to be kitted out for their job is discussed in detail in the LES pages 207 to about 211.
The Lithgow HT was boxed in pairs at the factory and sent to store. Each box contained two rifles and their numbered scopes in the scope "cans"- the crates were set up to hold them in set positions. There was also a couple of cut outs in the baffles and a leather strap with buckle secured to the base of the box in the middle. I suspected this was to hold two bayonets, but as yet to take the time to work out how exactly.... Maybe it was for something else. The rifles were delivered to the units in the crate. They were removed from the crate, issued to the shooters and the crates removed/ returned.
Even when the rifles were sold to civilian rifle club members the orders were taken by the club, then a truck would turn up with the crates in the back and those who had bought rifles, were handed a rifle and a scope out of the crate, and the crate returned to the depot in the truck. (this is where I also suspect most of the missmatching of scopes occurred)
Notes on the HT said that part way through production the cheek piece with screws and front trigger guard screw swivel were added to the crates when packed, and were also to be put into the crates already in store.
Once in the hands of the shooter, the rifle was to be set up by the unit Armourer to suit the shooter. Fitment of the cheek piece and swivel if required, possible L or S butts.
In the book, One Shot Kills, the authors note the associated gear used by the Aussie snipers in Korea amounted to the spotters telescope (Tel Sct Regt), a pair of binoculars, compass, ammunition and an entrenching tool.
There has been a lot of discussion about the intended use of the Machete Bayonet- being as an all purpose tool for snipers. I have not seen any pics of either the Machete Bayonet or the Owen bayonet hanging off a snipers webbing. Here is one pic that shows the sniper closest to the camera has a bayonet on his belt and a pair of binoculars around his neck.
Attachment 76065
and a pic of the inside of the crate demonstrating the cut outs in the baffles that may be for bayonets. Note the leather strap is almost too short to do up to itself even when the bayonets are pulled in to touch. I doubt the bayonets were included- but have nothing to prove either way.
Attachment 76066
In my "portrait" pic, I have put in the compass and the pocket watch as described as issued to snipers for the No4T. I suggest that if a sniper had to have a bayonet, the shorter Owen bayonet was available for issue, and maybe better suited as a tool for the snipers like the machete bayonet may have been...
The HT crates are very much rarer than the rifles. They are similar in size to the Bren chest, but not the same. After the rifles were issued, the chests seemed to disappear....
Hope you can make some sense from my tired ramblings here :confused:
Thanks Son, not tired ramblings at all, just good info and much appreciated
Not having either for a "side-by-side", how do the "T" case dimensions compare to the boxes used a little late for shipping the M-60 in Oz service?
The M60 was gone before I came on the scene.... I welded one up a little while back, thats the limit of my experience with them. Perhaps Muffer can chip in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz
I do have a bit of info. somewhere Brad, but at the moment I am in Sydney at Malabar(Anzac Rifle Range) competing in the Queens.
Won't be home until next week.
good luck and I hope you have fun.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by henry r
Best of luck, mate....
+ 2 muffer.
Thanks for the really informative photo's & text Brad. One of these elusive HT twin chests ended up in my loft about twenty years ago when the late Bruce Gorton sent a brace of HT rifles over in it. It really deserves a better fate as I've barely looked at it in all that time, although I guess stored in my attic it's not eating anything, & at least it's dry up there!