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My mother in law found an old helmet today. I know it's a WWI helmet, but not much else. Anyone know what the symbol painted in the front represents?
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Could it be from a specialist anti-balloon section. The badge looks like an observation balloon on fire to me
I don't think that it's WW1 because it's got the extra "safety edge/lip" to the rim but is more likely to be inter war or WW2. The WW1 helmets that I've seen have only a raw edge to the rim.
I think it is civilian for use during war time or civil defense as WW1 type military helmets have the "donut" in the center for the straps and more bales on the helmetAttachment 76352Attachment 76353
photo show civilian helmet
I think it's a Brodie anyway, not a Kelly. That means UK issue not U.S. As for the badge, I haven't see it but maybe as Peter suggests it might be worth investigating UK badges.
It is the service type of helmet but here in the U.K., during WW2, Fire*, Police and some Civil Defence workers were issued with the service type helmet. Other Civil Defence workers were issued with what I call the civilian type helmet which was a cheaper/lighter steel helmet. There may be some of the centre part of the liner missing.
*Some of the National Fire Service and Auxiliary Fire Service helmets were fitted with a leather veil or pelmet on the rear part of the rim. This was to help stop hot sparks etc going down the back of the neck and to give the neck some protection. Steel helmets that have 3 holes in the back half of the rim normally indicate that it had Fire service use.
Thanks for the all the replies, gentlemen! I posted this up on Gunboards, as well, and a member was able to provide this:
Original U.S. WWI M1917 Doughboy Helmet- 104th Infantry Regiment Yankee Division with Textured Paint ima-usa.com
I don't know if the information contained in the listing is correct or not, but at least I have a lot more information than I previously did to try to give her some details.
The emblem almost looks the same, hand painted as it is it may be.
There is sometimes a date stamped on the underside of the rim but it can be a job to find/see it and I don't think that it is always present. I would be very interested to know the exact date that the "safety edge" to the rim came in because although I don't know the exact date I don't think that it was until after WW1 had ended but I stand to be corrected on this. This "safety edge", as I call it, is a separate piece of metal formed into a "U" section and then attached to the rim. As I've already stated the WW1 helmets which I recall seeing have been without this "safety edge" and have just a raw edge. Is anyone able to give us a date when the change to the rim edge happened, please?
The British MkI helmet - introduced in 1916 - had a steel rim:Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
Mk.I - The Brodie Helmet and its derivatives
Here's the very similar US M1917 helmet:
M1917 - The Brodie Helmet and its derivatives
Thanks for that peregrinvs, I did get the same answer (1916) myself, earlier this evening, from another source but thought I'd wait before posting to give someone else a chance to come back with something.
Fascinating stuff, what a great find, worthy of further research and museum preservation.
It would be interesting to know if there is a date stamped on the underside of the rim.
I would be cautious of paying an inflated premium to purchase a helmet that was said to be of WW1 vintage in case it wasn't.
Here are the only markings that I could find on the helmet:
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My mother in law asked me to sell it for her so I put it up on Gunbroker if anyone needs one for their collection. I only collect firearms and accessories that go directly with them such as bayonets and scopes.
She finds some really good stuff at garage sales. Last year (or maybe two years ago?) she found this one which turned out to be a pretty rare SS helmet. I wish I had her luck!
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The marking on the British helmet could be an abbreviated date of 1931 with a prefix of "LL" but I don't know what the prefix would be for unless it was the initials of the firm who pressed the shell.
I have an almost identical SS helmet except mine has been over painted for post-war use by Norway but you can still make out the remains of the SS decal on one side and just the outline on the other. I paid about £125 Sterling for this helmet 2 or 3 years ago.
That particular SS helmet only has the sticker on the one side. I guess some of them were only marked on the one side.
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Could it be a size? I recall the German helmet having a size stamping of some sort on it. Maybe this one is marked with the size, as well?
it's funny how we all read markings differently. I read it as ZL 37 struck heavily on the bottom.
It needs a damp thumb run across it to bring out the number/letter.Quote:
Originally Posted by henry r
I see what you mean about the "Z", henry, which I didn't see until you pointed it out. Just below the "Z" I see a "L" or partial "L".
Another trick which someone told me years ago for letter/number stampings that are hard to read is to rub a chalk stick over the area lightly and then blow off the surplus dust. This was traditionally used by teachers in schools during lessons but probably isn't nowadays. I remember one slightly amusing incident when I was at school and the teacher decided that it would be an excellent idea to throw the chalk board rubber at a pupil who had been misbehaving in class. Unfortunately, for the teacher the kid had quick reactions and ducked out of the way; the board rubber went straight through the classroom window.
I believe that there are/were single and double decal SS helmets but I don't know the reason why. Perhaps one version is earlier than the other???
I think that the British helmet shells were all the same size and only the liners varied in size but I stand to be corrected on this.
I believe it's correct info, it's definitely a US M1917 helmet , the British shells had split rivets for the chin strap swivel loops, yours has a solid rivetQuote:
Originally Posted by jjjxlr8
the Insignia is also a US unit, good find