1939 Enfield Bren - a spot of help please

HI all, I have a couple of questions on my new deact 1939 Enfield Bren that I’ve just picked up.

First of all the barrel’s been rubbed down in a few spots to bare metal, no idea why this is the case, but I guess need to get some blue to try and match the original finish so it’s not so horribly obvious. I’ve no experience with this sort of work so wonder if anyone could point me in the right direction. Especially with a manufacture and place to purchase it from here in the UK. Fortunately its localised on the rear of the barrel to the area in the photo

Secondly, I’ve noticed it has the usual ’39 Enfield inspection mark, but also in the same area it has a Crown E over 7D ’40 mark. Would this have been an indication that it had been reworked in 1940, possibly post BEF use, or just that it perhaps didn’t make it out of the factory in 39. Its an A series serial number, so early 39 manufacture

Thanks to all and sorry for the lousy photos

.Attachment 76476Attachment 76477

You could cold blue or stove paint, which is close to what was actually used.

Not lousy photos at all. We need to see more of them to get the bigger picture and a fuller answer

It's not easy to tell from the photos but it looks like this is one from the recentish Irish release and was a DP or at least the barrel was. The holes have been welded closed and made good (well a rush job).

Thanks guys, will try to get some better photos tomorrow in a good light (any specific areas to concentrate on?) . It was deactivated in 2014 so it could well be. It's got DP on the barrel and also on the rear by the upper serial number.
The upper, lower and barrel nut all match, the barrel has a b block serial number on it as well (faintly struck through) and the same number as the rest then stamped on. Looks like a light black coat of paint has been sprayed over the barrel around that areal, so that may have been to cover the welded holes.

What is the story behind the recent Irish release, were they all drill purpose weapons?

Any thoughts on 40 dated inspection mark ?

Thanks again for the comments

If the amount of weapons the Irish Defence Force have supposedly released in the past 30 years is indicative of anything, it is that they had the largest Land Forces in Europe apart from the old USSR.

The '40 inspection mark is just that. It went through the factory again in 1940. The principal reason for this is to replace worn out gas cylinders. Gas cylinders and replacement locking shoulders to correct CHS were a return to factory repair until early 1944. Much more to it than that of course but.......

On the other hand, it is possible that a gun could have a production line fault that was discovered late in its manufacturing life. This was not uncommon and such guns were diverted to a rectification bay or what was known as '....the hospital' where guns could be rectified and sent out for service instead of scrapping them. Some that went through the bay had an 'A' suffix added to the serial number. So it could be that the gun was eventually rectified and then proofed and out-examined yet again afterwards. By this time it was 1940 - when the early C to late F series numbers were produced.

There are a few anomalies like this known to exist.

The Irish were given a lot of early Bren Mk1s in 1940 which later were converted to DP when the Mk3 entered service in 195x. They are recognisable by the Irish DP spec with the obvious thing being the 2 sets of holes, 1 set in the chamber and the other set just before the carry handle sleeve. 'The Gunner' store welded their examples up where as Kent Ex just left as was (which is better in my opinion).

Great info thanks, I think it may well be one of those, as the metal forward of the barrel locking nut at the top also looks as if it may have been welded and roughly filed over as well as the marks in the barrel area.
A couple of pictures enclosed.

The marking I don’t recognise is on the butt, where there is a D in a circle.

Attachment 76541

Is this second proof / inspection mark Enfield? It looks like a crown over an M, or has the E has been rotated through 90 degrees

Attachment 76542

The million dollar question is what solution is best to blend in the bare metal parts as much as possible - given I have no special tools and little experience blueing, I’m guessing a cold blue would be a good place to start, but any recommendations to brand and colour that would be a good match

Attachment 76543

As you can see from the photos it’s not a pristine example as it looks like it’s been painted over the original blue in places at some point.

Attachment 76540Attachment 76544

BP - you mentioned the Irish were given a lot of them in 1940, was this post Dunkirk, once we had started to recover from the loss of weapons, or before hand ?

thanks as always

The weld in front of the barrel nut will be where the barrel is pinned to the body as part of the Deac process.

i can only see a WD arrow near the ED logo so can't comment on that. But it does sound like an inspector mark.

I wouldn't worry about the condition, you'd be hard pressed to find anything that's 70+ years old in mint original condition. It just doesn't happen with issued kit.

I believe the Brens were given to the Irish Defence Forces right when we needed them the most. This decision must have come from the very top of Government and so they must have been worried about the Germans entering the UK or controlling our waters by invading the neutral country of the Republic. The majority of the Brens are from 1940 and are sequentially numbered in the D series with a splattering of 38s and 39s.

Isn't the "D" in a circle an early Daimler marking?

I brace myself to be corrected on this, but I think it's worth remembering that during WW2 Southern Ireland was a self governing member of the British Commonwealth. It didn't fully separate/leave the British Commonwealth until after WW2; the late 1940s I believe. During this time Southern Ireland had a similar right as any other part of the British Commonwealth to ask for help/assistance with procuring weapons for it's armed forces.

The mark to the left of the DA14 is an Enfield stage inspectors mark. The mark to the right looks like a crown over 55? Another stage inspectors mark. All these high level inspectors, all ex apprentices had their own marks and if the work wasn't up to scratch, they didn't pass it. The cocking handle slide cover is the DE of Enfield. The FB77 is Firth Brown and the steel batch number. What is the actual body number

Thanks Peter,
The serial number on the upper, lower and barrel nut is A7534 in what i am pretty sure is the original font (early to mid January 39 production?).. The barrel bears the same number along with a struck out b?537 (looking through a magnifying glass I think one of the mentioned rewelded deact and holes goes through this as the b is partly formed and the number is its a bit feint) there's also a '39 date on the barrel, which makes me think it's a b block originally

There are a lot more markings on this one than on my 43 dated mk1, All these marks really do tell a story don't they.....

Yes, A7534 would most likely be January 39. A7258 is the earliest 39 I have on record.

---------- Post added at 08:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 PM ----------

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

Isn't the "D" in a circle an early Daimler marking?

I brace myself to be corrected on this, but I think it's worth remembering that during WW2 Southern Ireland was a self governing member of the British Commonwealth. It didn't fully separate/leave the British Commonwealth until after WW2; the late 1940s I believe. During this time Southern Ireland had a similar right as any other part of the British Commonwealth to ask for help/assistance with procuring weapons for it's armed forces.

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I believe it ceased to be a Dominion in 1937 and effectively became a republic then but it wasn't officially a republic until 194x (can't remember the date).

I don't believe that Southern Ireland severed all official links to the British Commonwealth until after the end of WW2 but had, of course, been self governing since partitioning.

Back to Bren guns...... Those Mk1 barrels with stepped muzzles were another great innovative idea from the UK re-designers whereby, in theory, it would strangle or choke the burning powder residue. They hadn't digested and taken on board Professor Venturi's idea fully and decided that they knew best.

The trials teams at Hythe discovered that rings of diamond hard carbon were forming inside the stepped taper at regular spaced intervals along its internal diameter and length. Not only that, but the more rounds they fired, the larger the carbon deposits and therefore.........

Is anyone really interested in this saga................. If you want me to continue with the history and physics lesson just say!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

the more rounds they fired, the larger the carbon deposits and therefore.........

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I've seen the tail end of this saga personally, when the carbon gets thick enough and the bullet touches in passing. It upsets the ballistics causing a radical flight and knocks off the carbon so you can't find what caused the upset...

Almost BAR....... That could happen in the most extreme circumstance. These carbon rings caused the blast as it exited from the muzzle to deform and as it did, the gas would upset the balance of the bullet. So the bullets would be going everywhere! To cure this, the designers built into the combination tool the special scraper tool. But during war regular cleaning isn't the top priority so the problem remained.

But the best idea was to simply make the flash eliminator as it was designed - which they eventually did in mid 1940.

Thanks for the history lessons Peter, it's always interesting to know the back story to the designs. I'm guessing your Bren book will be well worth the wait if your sten one is anything to go by..

Any thoughts on what blue would be suitable for touching in the barrel - have heard good and bad reviews about Birchwood Casey super blue - any thoughts or suggestions ?

Thanks

Just paint the thing as we used to do day in and day out. You could strip it totally and have it done as a REME Armourers Base workshops did it but to achieve what? And if you blue it, it ain't real blue. Just prepare it, degrease it and paint it with a heat resisting paint then put it in a large oven to cure. It ain't going into action any time soon. It's just got to look the part. Just my humble opinion of course.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Just paint the thing It ain't going into action any time soon. It's just got to look the part. Just my humble opinion of course.

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Agreed...see post two...

Thanks guys, will give it a go..