UK Bren owners beware.......

Not so much current Bren owners but prospective owners of a deactivated Bren. I've just seen one of the new EU accepted spec for deactivated Bren Guns. Dear o' deary me....... what a sorry sight. Have you ever seem a mad angle grinder and welder at work?

Look....., there are still a few of the old spec guns tucked away with the usual dealers that are still legally saleable. Alas, they are now thin on the ground and I've heard it said that some of those that still have the old spec dewat Brens are asking premium prices while they are still available.

Take a bit of advice. I know that it's going to be difficult to take this advice but it's an investment that you can't afford to miss. GET ONE NOW WHILE THEY'RE STILL OUT THERE. By the end of the year they'll be gone and thereafter, it'll be like they're made from unobtainium

Sounds like good advice to me. One very well known U.K. dealer is only deactivating machine guns to the new E.U. spec to order and is not intending to stock them already deactivated. Presumably this is because they are concerned about being left with stock that nobody wishes to purchase.

I believe it has still yet to be decided whether the previous UK spec or specs will be 're-recognised' for the purposes of sale or transfer. (Current sale or transfer is technically illegal, but the EU Regulation concerned is currently unenforcable) Fingers crossed.

But yes, the new spec is the new spec and won't be changed. :-(

Make sure you get one NOW while you can. Sale or transfer of old spec is still legal as of now.

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Originally Posted by peregrinvs

I believe it has still yet to be decided whether the previous UK spec or specs will be 're-recognised' for the purposes of sale or transfer. (Current sale or transfer is technically illegal, but the EU Regulation concerned is currently unenforcable) Fingers crossed.

But yes, the new spec is the new spec and won't be changed. :-(

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I really hope they decide that existing Deacs can still be sold/transferred. If it goes that way, values of older deacs will
Increase, if the proposed way....Zero. I've got thousands tied up in my Deac pension fund and this will have a future impact on my financial security. This was my main reason for voting out of the EU.

In my experience of life, in periods of uncertainty such as with the deacs and the European Union etc it doesn't pay for the ordinary man in the street to make hasty decisions especially where money is involved. I have heard of someone selling off his entire large deac collection at give away prices in the mistaken belief that all deacs were going to be banned by the E.U.. The story that I was told was that the individual wrongly thought that he would have to hand in all his deacs and that he would get no compensation. I was told this by a fellow collector.

Assuming that new rules and regulations etc, courtesy of the E.U., come into force that prohibit the transfer/sale of existing spec deacs, it would make interesting reading if someone could, please, explain how it is planned to enforce any new laws governing this matter?

It's totally un-enforceble and the police have far better things to do. Imagine the cost in overstretched police manpower of the investigation chasing non existent paperwork trying to prove someone just bought an old spec deac! The only way this could work is if they were registered to the individual owner. That won't happen as they can't cope with firearms licencing as it stands, never mind adding thousands of new people and tens of thousands of deacs! I would hope the retrospective trading ban will be quietly dropped when we have completed BREXIT (highly likely), but I'm afraid the new spec will remain, that won't change now no matter what..

You know funny thing police when they are conducting random checks they get a bit gnarly when things do not add up with your paperwork or your storage. In this instance my FAL renewal had a 308 that was originally licensed for club use only but on the renewal had it for open use meaning I could use it anywhere on land owners property with their permission of course. So I contacted the licensing dept to have the mistake corrected because our police do conduct random checks to ensure you are complying with the law right down to the 40mm washers minimum and 10mm dynabolts, FAL's are too hard to get in this state also if you do lose your guns for whatever reason it's very costly to get back.
And having seen how police treat weapons that end up in their station safes put it this way that $4-5K scope they do not give a toss about it getting knocked around. Simple fix keep it legal and sleep well.

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Originally Posted by Brit plumber

I really hope they decide that existing Deacs can still be sold/transferred. If it goes that way, values of older deacs will
Increase, if the proposed way....Zero. I've got thousands tied up in my Deac pension fund and this will have a future impact on my financial security. This was my main reason for voting out of the EU.

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I wasn't going to take the chance, and sold almost all of my pr-95 spec de-acts in early 2016 to a well known dealer (2 x Lee No.4's including a Matlby, No.5 Jungle Carbine, '38 dated No.2 Enfield revolver, a '41 dated Mk1 BREN, Mk2 STEN, M1A1 Thompson and a mint MP40) Even at the offer of what amounted to about 50-55% of retail, I'd trebled what they had cost me back in the late 80's/early 90's, and the money went to buyer a mint live No.4T that I otherwise couldn't have afforded.
I kept my 2 x M1928 Thompsons as I just couldn't part with either, especially as one is a British Issue one. I too hope that the transfer/sale rules are changed in the future, but I won't hold my breath on that.

I doubt very much it will change for the better, but there will be a window of opportunity when we do leave, how long that window will be who knows, you need to read and read again the new legislation carefully, only a small snippet but its there .......... just remember we will NOT be a EU member state when we leave.

I do generally feel for folk who have invested a lot in to them, such as BP who mentions his pension and I guess Kev G must have a few ££ invested also.

My deacts are very few for when I eventually finish and display the Matchless, I won't be wearing any of the gear....... I'll leave that to a mannequin.

A recent copy of Gun Mart magazine suggested, if I understood it correctly, that we were the only E.U. country to fully implement the new E.U. rules/regulations/laws.

That's about right F10, considering the current legislation regards trading of deactivated firearms within the EU, it should be null and void in 2019.... Problem is they will probably just copy and paste the legislation into UK law.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

That's about right F10, considering the current legislation regards trading of deactivated firearms within the EU, it should be null and void in 2019.... Problem is they will probably just copy and paste the legislation into UK law.

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Once were out John that will be the case, once we leave and between the time it is copied and pasted and the few words re shuffled........is the "Window of opportunity" I spoke of.

The W&P show didn't have as much as normal in LMG's etc, one stand that was attracting attention was the guy who was making Replica/dummy GPMG's, very impressive.

I'm not convinced that leaving the EU will make things any easier for firearms in the UK; as you already have the strictest laws in the EU as far as I know.
When was the last time you could take a .45 pistol out for target practice?
I understand that the EU were changing the Deac' rules because some of the weapons used in recent terror attacks (Bataclan etc) were apparently re-activated deac's; albeit from eastern euro countries that do not have the same rules in place.

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Originally Posted by 30Three

I understand that the EU were changing the Deac' rules because some of the weapons used in recent terror attacks (Bataclan etc) were apparently re-activated deac's; albeit from eastern euro countries that do not have the same rules in place.

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It was suggested, if I understood what I read correctly, that they could still fire blank ammunition so would have retained functioning working parts. Hardly what we know as a deac in the U.K. and, in my view, shouldn't be called a deactivated weapon.

All that these new rules/laws have really achieved is to massively inconvenience law abiding collectors and also dealers trying to make an honest living.

When it is convenient, maybe a few folks in the UK, as well as other European Countries will update where the laws stand and how the situation looks. Overall, I see the UK government ( and many of it’s citizens) preferring to reduce and remove almost any military arms from public possession. We have the same situation in the US, but a few years behind the UK.

A large part of the left leaning citizenry really does not embrace gun ownership. While I do not believe any new laws were passed concerning importation of military deactivated weapons, under Obama direction, ATF’s new “ interpretations” of deactivation included barrels, now requiring torch cutting. Next will be bolts and trigger parts; maybe bipods!!

I did not stay up to date with the passage of ITAR, wrongly believing it applied to governments and military purchasers. It has also effected the sale of the smallest parts and accessories in the firearms trade. At one time I could order small parts from the UK or Australia. Now, I do not believe that is allowable. So the parts in each local, are the parts that will be available, meaning those prices will rise. That is unless you are told by your government they are BANNED with NO COMPENSATION. Then you are instantly made a criminal or you are instantly reduced in financial compensation of legally purchased items.

There should be NO Bans without financial compensation to owners. It is too easy for lawmakers to wave their wand when it doesn’t cost them anything.

There should be NO Bans without financial compensation to owners. It is too easy for lawmakers to wave their wand when it doesn’t cost them anything.

we got close to diddly for our hand guns, when we made to hand them ,,,,,stupid UK laws

EU accepted specs aren't going to matter after 29 March 2019.
Your DEWATs entirely welded shut?

I have just bumped into this thread and thought I had better update the world at large regarding the state of the deactivation laws in Europe and UK. As those of us who live in the UK we not only enforce new regulation but put jam on it as well.
The EU commission decided after the attacks in France that the deactivation regulations needed to be altered because as someone has already pointed out that supposedly deactivated guns were reactivated and used in the terrorist attacks. As far as I am aware the only "deactivation" that was carried out was to pin the breach to prevent a round being chambered so reactivation was a really easy process.
The Commission decided to impose new regulations that would apply to ALL guns weather deactivated or not which meant that all existing deactivated guns had to be altered to bring them up to the new specification.
In the UK there were what is referred to as pre "95" deacts these fetched a premium price because whilst they are completely deactivated they still have moving parts and could at least be part stripped, things like bren barrels though were welded in place. After "95" the rules changed and there were a lot less moving parts but the rules were not retrospective and it was still legal to own and trade in both types.
Now comes the rub, the new EU Commission rules applied at ALL deactivated guns regardless of there previous state, and to get round the compensation problem which would have cost a fortune, ie pre "95" MP40's were fetching between £2000 and £3000, they decided that it was not illegal to own a deactivated gun that was not up to the new standard but it was illegal to sell, trade, lend, give or leave in a will any such gun unless it was brought up to the new standard.
This of course destroyed the value of any collection overnight and some peoples collections were huge. People who earnt their living from selling deacts were now caught with stock that had to be re-deactivated and sent to the proof house for certification before they could carry on their business but the clowns in Europe were not finished with us yet.
After all of the work and expense required to bring their stock up to the new standard within 18 months the EU Commission had decided to alter the specification yet again which meant that all of the previous work and expense was a complete waste of time as no compensation was offered.
The new specification is basically everything is ground off and or welded shut the only thing that moves is the trigger and that must not be in contact with anything inside the gun, so there you have it what might have been once been worth several thousand pounds is now a worthless piece of wood and metal. Brexit bring it on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Sunray

EU accepted specs aren't going to matter after 29 March 2019.
Your DEWATs entirely welded shut?

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For anyone with pre 95 and 95 spec deactivated firearms, it will be a date to remember if they wish to trade sell etc....... how long before it gets re written one can only guess, but I think the Government will have enough on its plate when we leave...... yep as Buccaneer says the day can't come quick enough, personally if I was in the PM,s shoes I'd just stick two fingers up at them all........ there are a lot of government bodies geared up for a no deal.

My decision to vote leave was financial and about 95% based on this decision. I’ve lost thousands in value from my collection and I was called narrow minded by many for voting leave. Those that called me narrow minded all voted remain as they had financial reasons to stay within the U.K.

I didn’t and don’t try to reason with them. I don’t regret my vote one little bit.

BP, I feel your pain, but not all is lost, I don't know if you have seen D&B website recently but they have some old spec stuff that they are willing to export to Isle of Man etc.

Often thought if you sold it many years ago and stored it for the said person where do you stand....... obviously if he has an invoice or receipt then it is his/hers ???

So the same condition for deactivated weapons applies to Wales and Scotland as well? I know those are somewhat two different animals, but surprised that the Isle of Man has separate set of rules....