M91 long rifle

Got this a while back as a gift from a friend. He bought it mail order back in 1961 for $5.00, & never shot it or even cleaned the cosmoline out. Just sat is the corner of his game room. Gave it to me, since well, I like guns. especially old ones. But I don't know much about it.

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Shoots good though.

Wow that is one of the earliest M91 Carcano Rifles I have ever seen. 1893! The bolt is mismatched that being said, after the first bit of years of production they stopped numbering bolts and treated them as interchangeable. Made in the second year of production at Torino definitely a cool find (Torino only made them from 1892-1900).

Definitely a cool piece, I would start detailing more about it, but I would have to dig up my book, so maybe later tonight. Thanks for sharing!

Thank you. This has become one of my favorite rifles. Right after my finn capture N.E.W. M91 & before the ak-74. Such a pleasure to shoot & definitely underrated in the accuracy department.

Hard to beat an old milsurp.

So some more information now that I have some Gin in me and found my book. So as mentioned made in Torino in 1893 which was second year of production however it was manufactured early in 1893, the lowest SN found for Torino in 1893 is P3184 and the highest found for 1893 is Q5439. The total number of M91s made at Torino is 184,000. The stock/rifle was repaired/and or refurbished at Roma Arsenal in I think 1931. The reason being is the big roundel on the stock, I believe above the Roma word in the center there is a 'IX' which in roman numerals is 9 and since the Italians started counting in roman numerals in 1922 would place it at 1931 (it is hard to tell though, I am having a tough time reading any of it). The stock is also a replacement from that rework as told by the overstamped numbers however it is correct in the sense that is how it was issued after that point.

The PG on the bolt handle is a inspectors mark, though I don't know who. The crown on the bolt handle is a acceptance marking, specifically listed in my book as 'Crown proof mark'. The BP on the receiver is another inspectors mark. The Crown beside is actually a 'Crown with a DL under it', which is listed as a likely Roma Arsenal inspection stamp (which would make sense when paired with that stock). The PO on the barrel facet under the '1893' is used to indicate the type of steel used in the barrels manufacture. The reason the Italians would do this is they quality of steel could vary depending on what was available at the time, more common letterings for this is 'AT' and 'FP'.

These rifle can shoot very well provided they are given the right ammo. The problem is the right ammo is exceptionally difficult to get for these rifles as they did some very odd things with the bores diameter and rifling. There was even quite a few international competitions won by people using Carcanos in the early 20th century, two examples I will use is in the 1902 world competition in the prone position a competitor named Conti won 1st place with the M91 Carcano. In the 1904 world competition a competitor named Bonicelli got first place in standing.

That is about all the information I can provide, it is definitely a cool rifle which as been there and done that.

Thank you. Most interesting information. Like most people I had never really given much thought to the Carcano rifles. You'd think being from Dallas and a gun buff, I would have at least given them a passing glance. When my landlord gave me this one I got the Carcano bug. I've been quietly browsing the shops here for some carbines to keep it company.

I've had very good luck with some reloads I've been using. Hornady 6.5mm .264'' 140gr ELD match bullets for 1-8'' twist. On Prvi brass with CCI primers & 30.3 to 33.1 grains of IMR 4064. getting 2-3'' groups at 100 yards on a bag.

Most people haven't given much thought to the Carcano. It just doesn't seem to inspire the same amount of interest as say Lee Enfields or Mausers. Still very efficient rifles in their own right, they are more or less the most average military service rifle there is. It wouldn't be my first choice to take to combat, but that being said it meets the minimum criteria I have for a combat bolt action. Some odd features here and there, but for the most part it is just average. There is a fair number of variations and manufacturers, and if someone wanted to, you could have a fairly serious collection just trying to hunt down the main models, then there is the sub-models and manufacturers if you got more interested.

I like this so much for the recoil. It's given my daughters who are both 12 the opportunity to learn marksmanship on a real "rifle". They have both been shooting .22's, Ar-15's, & Ak-74's for several years. But the big .30-06, 7.92x57, .303, & 7.62x54r rifles are just beyond their physical abilities to take the recoil. So the 6.5mm round was a blessing in that department.

NICE MODEL 91 !!! mine is one of the LAST original model1891s made..dated 1918. on flat on receiver. serial # GM 4874. mismatched bolt ser.#GM 8430.
This one has the 3 dots and the Greek ''E'' on receiver indicating 6.5x54 MAN. SCHO. Caliber. in good + condition with matching serial number . some Trench Art on stock....
until I actually started ''enjoying'' these fine,very well made firearms,i was as a lot of people,believed that they were ''cheap-junk''. Glad I have been ''Enlightened.
have a ''like new'' model 41. both fine firearms.
WC

Very nice find. A dew extra Points:
1. Serialing of Bolts ended in WW I...with wartime production, it was found that the interchangeability of bolts was so good, that there was no need to laboriously number them

2. PO Leopoldina Hutte ("Poldi Steelworks") Kladno, Bohemia, Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Steelworks founded by a German family, the wife's name was Leopoldina, nick- named "Poldi"...Hence the shortened name.

Poldi steel was specified in the original M91 designs etc ( see "il '91" by Simondi, Belogi & Grimaldi,, Olympia Ed. 1970).
Only later did OTO-Vickers-Terni Steel works supply the FA Terni with steel to a similar composition. Poldi also supplied the steel in the 1930s for the first Bren Guns (both in ZB and at Enfield.)
Poldi still exists as a specialist steel maker, and a renowned Czech Football team ( Both in Kladno, Czech Republic.)

AT Ansaldo-Terni ( an associate of OTO-V-Terni); FP ? Fonderie Piemontesi ( a Turin Steel Works, associated with FIAT)

3. 1918 was NOT the last year of M91 Production, Beretta did a small run in the early 1930s, just before the Abyssinian War ( Oct.35--March 36).

4. "Roma" was the Officine Riparazioni Artigleria, which under the mark "OR" made M91s during 1917 and 18. It continued as a "Artillery" repair service till the end of WW II.

The "Artillery" service in Italy controlled ALL Ordnance manufacture and repairs, from SA through large calibre Guns. In Pre-Smokeless times, the Artillery Service Officer was the best scientifically trained technician in any European Army.

Sad about the "Mixed Bolt" but after WW I, this was the Norm.

Doc AV

HELLO DOC,
Followed your posts for years on too many sites to disagree with you to point #3.
that is why I said ''original''. 1891-1918. then, in the early 1930's yes there was that short run/////
there are NO model 91 rifles dated from 1919 to the 1930s short run. that is all I meant.
just a point of fact. And you being a person who enjoys the 1904 P.M. in 6.5x58mm as I do, I mean no disrespect. WC

[QUOTE=WASATCH CHARLIE;383309]HELLO DOC,
Followed your posts for years on too many sites to disagree with you to point #3.
that is why I said ''original''. 1891

Like all things CARCANO and SKS carbines, just when one Thinks ya got it figured, something pops up

I just saw a model 91, dated on the flat,1929
top flat stamped TERNI
another flat stamped B 9926.
So much for me stating that from the LAST model91 in 1918, no more made until the 1930's short run....

I was in error.....but life goes on !!!

In my previous post, I stated that the model1891 long rifles are found ,dated from 1891 to 1918...... then a small number made in the early 1930s.

As with all things CARCANO, I WAS IN GREVIOUS ERROR!!!!! just a few days ago, I saw a model 1891 ,photos actually, dated on the barrel flat 1929.
on top flat TERNI, and on another barrel flat, B 9926. (serial # )
I hope my error has not caused anyone to run naked,screaming in the streets over the Christmas season....if so I beg forgiveness.

:o DOUBLE POSTING:o

Hello Sir,
I own a Terni 1931. It was a prize rifle awarded to my grandfather in 1932. With brass plate of the contest and silver plate with our family name on it.
Crossed rifles over target etc.
A very fine gun indeed.
And definitely a 1891 long rifle with gain twist.
Probably one of the short run of the early '30s.

Have a good evening and greetings from Italy.

Thank you OVIDIO for your interesting post on your families 91.
With the crossed rifles and nameplate.... it is a classic.:thup:

A photo/s otherwise it doesn't exist ...

I'll try to get it done. Still don't have much experience with the "tools" of the forum.

Well, let's see if I got it done right.......

Seems it worked, good.
I'm glad my rifle does exist indeed;-D
It will be published in the future new edition of the '91 book from Ruggero Pettinelli, which will include a section about the prize rifles.
Too bad we don't have the case anymore, but we had to make some concessions to the front passing our home three times in a few weeks back in '44.
I also added a picture of the front sight adjustment tool and the small protective cover that were issued with the rifle.

I wish everybody a good evening.

That is very nice. I'm glad it exists so you could share it with us, thank you.

I never saw a sight adjustment tool for one of these before. How does it work?

Good morning Aragon. You have to put it over the front sight, straddle it actually, and get the screw opposite to the direction you need to shift the blade. Then just tighten as much as needed. It is a very common system, nothing really exotic. But it it made for the '91 specifically, so it fits perfectly and does a very fine job.