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Anyone know who the maker was of this one? It has a beautiful blued finish.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...10/Blued-1.jpg
These two were in the pile also. Mk1*’s I believe. Are the spot-welded ones common?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0mag2201-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0mag2202-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...en20mag3-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0mag5201-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0mag5202-1.jpg
When you ask if something is common in respect of Brens Vince, each Bren eventually came issued with 25 magazines (2x boxes +1 in the chest) so they are all very common in real terms numerically but some are not as common as others as opposed to UNcommon I'd say. We used to call those mags 'split magazines' (they all were really of course but those were more visibly 'split') but you'd see them all the time.
Can't think of who 'J' might be. Someone is bound to suggest a badly stamped JI but just ignore that........... I bet BP or Kev G knows who they are!
Thanks, Peter.
I know I have seen the sun marking (top pic) before somewhere.
Vincent, I took that to be a star as in a MKII* not to be confused with a partial Electrolux Australia marking which is a globe symbol. I thought the Electrolux marking looked like a sun before I found out it's real meaning. I have several spot welded mags but not many and some are marked with the "E", like yours, and others with the dispersal code. I haven't seen a maker's code of just "J" and wonder if it is actually the maker's mark. On some of the Bren mags I have the maker's mark is difficult to see and this can be especially true if the mag has been refurbished.
Looks like a sun to me.
I believe this is Mk2*:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...k220star-1.jpg
I have seen this mark on some of my mags and always assumed it to be a star. However, as in this example, due to the positioning of it I have wondered if it was added later, after the MKII marking, perhaps when the mag was brought up to the later spec.. I concluded that when a star/sun was/if added later it was fitted in where there was a convenient space.
6 pointed star as in No4 Mk1* or Mk1**. Often seen on No2 revolvers that have been modified and had the Mk/type advanced
Here are some pictures of the markings on an Electrolux Australia manufactured mag. It was some time before I discovered what the heck this marking was which I use to describe as a "half rising sun" before Kev kindly enlightened me and some other fellow collectors who were also stumped as to it's meaning.
Is there any more markings on the mag apart from the J? The mag is a Mk2*, the roman numerals are very faint and they have been over stamped by the broad arrow. The split/wrapped mags are uncommon and are marked with dispersal code M78 and E for Elkington.
Discovered another uncommon maker the other day that caught my eye. The handfull of mags are marked RBA43 or RBA44, after a bit of reaserch and asking around, these mag's are made by RYLANDS BROTHERS NEWCASTLE Northen Austrialia. The markings are roughly hand stamped on and some are double stamped where the stamp has bounced and some of the smaller markings are stamped on very haphazard. After taking them apart it appears so far that RYLANDS only made the case/body and all the other internals and the floor plate are MA marked. Another variation to look out for anyway!
I've not come across a Electrolux made platform; all the Electrolux mags which I've examined have had the platform made by someone else, normally M.A. marked for Lithgow.
My Hercules cycles made mags appear hand stamped if marked by "H.C." but machine stamped if marked by their dispersal code. The reason I say hand stamped for "H.C." is because the positioning appears at random places on the mag and the letters also appear to be sometimes struck to differing depths. The dispersal code from memory, M177 ?, always appears to be in the same position and, as I've noted on another thread, this marking is also duplicated on the inside of the opposite side of the mag.. This, obviously, indicates that Hercules used the same press tool for both sides of the mag..
ELECTROLUX made the Mk1* bottom plate of which i have several in my collection.
The only component so far that i cannot find made by ELECTROLUX is the platform, all the ELECTROLUX mag's i have checked so far, the platforms are MA III 42 or 43 marked & dated.
I wonder if there'll ever be a day when there is an L1A1 magazine collecting fraternity......
Perhaps one day even we'll be worth something Peter...regimentally speaking...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I have an empty Bren mag box that has been converted to take the straighter L4 mags but the problem is that the L4 mags are much harder to get hold of than the .303 version. Therefore much more expensive when occasionally offered for sale.
I do plan to start a thread on the mag boxes (standard 12 mag tins) of which I have a number of the .303 version when I get round to taking some pictures. I am curious as to some of the markings on the tins and, with luck, members may be able to help identify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I have been gathering inch pattern and metric mags for a while, so, I guess I am in that “collecting fraternity.”
I like “Collecting fraternity member.” It has a nice ring to it and sounds so much better than “Hoarder of Guns, Mags and Ammo.” :D
I like 'Temporary Custodian's of History' better!..:super:
A magazine box thread (thread 15)........... I feel a headache coming on! You could write a small book on the relaxations in standards and handle configurations. Add to that the repair procedures catered for! Not usually an armourers job because broken/damaged boxes were usually shipped out to the A&G tinsmiths and equipment repairers. But we did carry out the occasional modifications - and convert a few into suitable-to-type range boxes!
As I have said a zillion times, the bren is a classic example of something that encourages the bane of all authors...... mission creep. The other good example is being written as we speak. The FN-MAG 58 L7 GPMG
Thank you Kev g for doing the photo image for me.
1. I hope the image of the ELECTROLUX bottom plates helps you out, next time you are at a show/fair FLYING10
2. I would be interested if anyone discovers a platform made by ELECTROLUX(anal retentive i know, but its all part of the collecting bug)
3. The image of the wrapped ELKINGTON mags takes me back to a time in the very early 90's when i started collecting Bren stuff and all i had to go on was the old BREN GUN SAGA which showed the ELKINGTON wrapped mag although not described as such, on page 132 described as an experimental magazine (light expendable magazine.) imagine my joy one day when i discovered 12 in a box thinking i had found a holy grail only to have been shot down in flames by old Herb at the pattern room tell me they were ELKINGTON made and a uncommon magazine but standard, how things have changed. Its a good thing now the amount of info that has come out since and put on forums etc by the collecting fraternity. Still got to wait and find out if hi capacity military mags are to be banned by the EU. so get Bren mags while you can! And yes i do still have that now very grubby 1st edition BREN GUN SAGA which got me started back in 92.
The image of the Electrolux bottom plate doesn't really help me out much which Kev kindly posted in Post 12 but it may be helpful to other Forum members. The reason for this is because I posted my own image of an Electrolux bottom plate in Post 8 together with other images of an Electrolux mag, one of perhaps 2 dozen Electrolux Bren mags that I have.
Just a quick "preliminary question" to do with the mag tins which hopefully won't result in a migraine for anyone. Does anyone have any idea the reason for one of my mag tins having a bright red stripe painted down the front left corner of the tin? I only have one tin with this stripe and wondered if it was to show that the tin contained D.P./practice mags not intended for live firing use???
Sorry, did not zoom in on the thumbnail photo of the ELECTROLUX bottom plate you had posted earlier.
I don't think that colours stripes or shapes indicate anything but the Company, platoon or section.
There were a couple of recognised markings for DP magazines. Just a white band and DP markings of course but DP guns just use service magazines EXCEPT the same mags with a bright red cross. These had a semi official modification carried out. But I could never find an official explanation! But it was VERY common. The mod was that he rear of the mag platform was chamfered to prevent the HOD operating during every cycle during dry training
There were some with a yellow band that had an alloy insert down the inside front face in order to use the short crimped blank. I saw a load of these in poor condition a few years ago.
added a bit later..... I have a funny feeling that the yellow banded mags with the insert were of some foreign origin (Canada?) because the use of short crimp ammo wasn't sanctioned for use in the Bren due to the obvious feed problems and the fact that we didn't have BFA barrels to match - just the 'smasher' barrels for the wood bulletted blank type ammo. Mind you, bulletted blank ammo was always in short supply. It was reported that the training allocation was two rounds per man per year per haps!
There is :madsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
For ZGB, Ryland Brothers magazines 43 & 44 dated.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bnfdregk-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ukgxblv9-1.jpg
Somebody ought to write a book about Bren magazine collecting. I'm sure it would sell. I saw one about collecting jerry-cans, so on that basis.............
But how do you get RBA to equate to Ryland Brothers KG? Ryland Brothers Accrington?
Thanks kev g for posting the pics of the RBA marked mags i discovered the other week(i dont do photobucket.)
1. B.H.P.'Broken hill proprietray' company produced the steel ingots at their newcastle works
2. LYSAGHTS rolled the ingots into cold roll strip for the production of machine gun magazine's
3. I can not be 100% at this time about the manufacture of bren mag case's by Rylands,but Rylands brothers wire was set up in newcastle by Rylands warrington England. The Rylands newcastle works was taken over by B.H.P and maintained the name RYLANDS and continued to be a fabricator of drawn steel wire products. I can only assume at this time that RYLANDS took delivery of the cold roll strip from LYSAGHTS and fabricated the mag case/body,hence RBA,which also according to Skennerton may stand for RYLANDS BROTHERS AUSTRALIA.
4. Research is in the very early stage, but now folks have seen the markings its another variation to collect.
I'm glad the info I sent came in usefull :-)
Skennerton in '100 years of Australian Service Machineguns' P116, definitely lists Rylands Bros,Newcastle,Aust as subcontractors for Bren magazines.
Other references are 'Australia's Economy in it's International Context' Vol I 1904 -1954
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...i44kmgqt-1.jpg
And -
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...uzftjysr-1.jpg
Hope this helps,ATB KG
That field in front of the factory (thread 26) looks just like my garden. Must get out there and mow it next summer.....
Alternatively purchase a goat/sheep.
Having not long de-greased the RBA mags, after spending 24hrs in the old JIZER tank,there are a couple of observations i would like to make.
1. The RBA phosphate finish is much rougher than the LITHGOW or ELECTROLUX magazines.
2. The phosphate finish also appears to be less resistant to abrasion, and is much blacker in colour compared to LITHGOW&ELECTROLUX mags
3. The LITHGOW bottom plates have been also in the same RBA phosphate dip.
4. At this moment, after stripping down 16 RBA mags all the sub components are LITHGOW supplied. This suggests that RBA only made the mag body so the articles quoted saying RBA made BREN magazines is not quite correct, they only made one component and did a lot assembly with the LITHGOW supplied parts. This may change as i have only looked at a small sample (16mags) so if anyone on the forum finds any RBA mag components other than the mag body, I would like to know