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In amongst a box of bits I got hold of today there was this magazine.
My uninformed eye suggests it is a 9mm Luger mag. The base is wooden, but is this a genuine period mag, or a modern repro?
Any opinions greatly appreciated.
Attachment 77309Attachment 77308Attachment 77307Attachment 77310Attachment 77311Attachment 77312
It looks good, but there should be marking on it. There should be SOMETHING... Unmarked mags could be between war commercial too.
thanks Jim
No markings on this one
There'll be others along in a minute...
There are some "wear" marks on the metalwork and damage to the wood cap which, in this case, is a good sign although this patina/wear can be faked.
It looks like a WW1 original to me. I could use one like that in my 1917 DWM Luger, (which now has a WW2 Nazi marked magazine).
Please PM me, if you are interested in selling it.
Happy to sell it, but not sure what they are worth. Also, are we safe to export Mags to the USA?
The walnut bases were used up into the 1920's, then they changed to aluminum bases sometime in the early 1930's if memory serves.
Each Luger was issued with two magazines which were serial numbered to the gun. The "spare" magazine was stamped with a "+" marking. Any magazine that is unnumbered is a replacement magazine not originally issued with a pistol.
Any magazine that has a plastic base and/or follower is a post war commercial mag.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...er20matc-1.jpg
I believe that the question of exporting a mag from the U.K. to the U.S. surfaced on this Forum a while back. If I remember correctly the consensus seemed to be that extreme caution was required in order to get the procedure/protocol right, especially in the current climate, or risk losing the mag to U.K. or U.S. customs or law enforcement. Personally, I have had no experience of exporting such items and so am not able to offer much more advice.
However, I do remember seeing a piece earlier in the year on Sky News?, I think, concerning a former British soldier turned artist. Basically he had got hold of several U.K. deactivated A.K.47s/Ms, legal within the U.K., and transformed them into "works of art" by sticking flowers and bank notes onto them. He may have also done further deactivation to them??? He then decided that it would be an excellent idea to display his "works of art" internationally at art exhibitions. Things turned a little sour when he arrived in the U.S. in order to attend an art exhibition and U.S. Customs decided that they wanted a sneak preview of his "works of art". U.S. Customs did seize the "works of art" and I never heard if the chap got them back. His main argument, as far as I could tell, seemed to be that they were "works of art" not weapons and so he couldn't understand why they were being seized.
I have purchased target sights sent to U.S.A. from ebay vendors located in the U.K. (Packages were labeled "diopter").
I don't know if there is a restriction on sending a Luger magazine in the British Post.
The U. S. Post and State of Michigan have no restriction on the shipping of an unloaded pistol magazine. Of course discrete labeling, like "antique auto part", is probably wise.
I understand and also have practiced discrete labeling...but they X-ray the vast majority of packages just as a practice at the border now. I'm not sure I'd chance it with a mag. I know Brian Dick(BDL Ltd) will have had much experience shipping and receiving between US and UK...why not PM him and ask?
Brian Dick assisted me with getting a new mag follower for my Parker Hale 22/250 he did all the paper work for it before he would even contemplate sending to me as it is considered a gun part so there you have it and that is only the follower which looks just like a ridged piece of aluminum flat plate that it is it, could be anything but why take the risk.
After issue, very little attention was paid to Army issue or numbering stamps, as mags got lost, damaged and were replaced. So, practically any of the technically correct mags (stamped metal, extruded, plastic, aluminium or wooden base) could be considered "correct", depending on when the weapon was manufactured (no extruded or Schmesser mags on an early Lugers etc). Value here would be in the region of 60€.
Agreed, it could be considered a correct "Replacement" for an early wood bottom mag set.Quote:
Originally Posted by villiers
There are other identical mags online shown as Imperial German Luger Mags. They aren't numbered either?
Prices in the US show as $250 and the in the UK £165 +
60 Euro is a very good price it seems.
I think I'll keep it as a curio rather than risk US customs seizing it.
thanks
Prices here in Germany are the low, e-Gun auction site range. Dealers are likely to charge much more. The Hermann Historica auction site is also a very good reference point.
PS
For shooting purposes (and reliability), Italian MecGar mags are highly recommended
There has been some suggestion/speculation that the E.U. is looking into restricting the sale/transfer of magazines within the E.U. and, presumably, coming into the E.U. from outside. I don't know how they chose to define "restricting" but it could, perhaps, mean a total ban or some form of licensed sale?
Weird, there's a seller from France that sells on "US" E-Bay all the time, all kinds of M-1 Carbine parts. What would make magazines any different from other gun parts?
Russ
Simple, he probably adheres to all the rules and regs and declares everything correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by RASelkirk
Customs Officers are not complete idiots, they are probably fully aware of all the likely tricks that people try to use to get round the system.
I think this has already been 'over thought'. I am sorry I made my interest known publicly.
FWIW - From my experience, U.S. Customs are easy to work with.
Well, at least it´s provided added proof that this site provides a very comprehensive service!:super:
It's perfectly legal to ship here, (USA), as long as it's declared for $100 or less. ANY firearm component worth more than $100 requires an ATF Form 6 import permit in order to legally import. This includes target sights but not telescopes.
There were P-08 Luger magazines coded fxo, (Haenel), manufactured during WWII that have plastic bottoms. They are correct on 41 date, 42 coded, (Mauser), pistols. Some are called "Black Widows" because they also have black plastic grip panels.
I was waiting for you...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
You can add 1001marked ww2 style magazines also. Made by East Germany aluminum bottoms. I have a bunch of them.
Canada got some East German luger many years ago. A friend of mine who also was a surplus arms importer gave
them to me along with 1911 45 lanyard magazines. He had nothing to do with importing the pistols. He got them for
nothing when he bought some guns from an exporter in Europe.
my DWM 1923 Commercial Luger made for export came with two unmarked magazines just like yours , nickle plated with plain wooden bottoms.
International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) covesr the following...
Category I—Firearms, Close Assault Weapons and Combat Shotguns
*(a) Nonautomatic and semi-automatic firearms to caliber .50 inclusive (12.7 mm).
*(b) Fully automatic firearms to .50 caliber inclusive (12.7 mm).
*(c) Firearms or other weapons (e.g. insurgency-counterinsurgency, close assault weapons systems) having a special military application regardless of caliber.
*(d) Combat shotguns. This includes any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches.
*(e) Silencers, mufflers, sound and flash suppressors for the articles in (a) through (d) of this category and their specifically designed, modified or adapted components and parts.
(f) Riflescopes manufactured to military specifications (See category XII(c) for controls on night sighting devices.)
*(g) Barrels, cylinders, receivers (frames) or complete breech mechanisms for the articles in paragraphs (a) through (d) of this category.
(h) Components, parts, accessories and attachments for the articles in paragraphs (a) through (g) of this category.
The last line covers magazines, sights etc etc, there is an exemption for miscellaneous parts like pins and springs with a value less than $100. You need to have an approved ATF Form 6 Application and Permit for Importation of Firearms, Ammunition and Implements of War to import magazines and gun parts. Failure to do so is a violation of Federal Law. Violations under the ITAR can bring civil penalties of $500,000 per violation and criminal penalties of up to $1 million per violation along with up to 20 years in prison.