Thought I had seen all the wrong ways to assemble a Sterling. Then along comes this new one.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...new20one-1.jpg
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Thought I had seen all the wrong ways to assemble a Sterling. Then along comes this new one.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...new20one-1.jpg
It looks like a flat wire spring from the magazine catch(?). What is it supposed to do? It looks as though it is simply inserted between two parts that don't move. The trigger guard frame and the sear cradle spring base. What a well thought out and manufactured self contained trigger mechanism. And as it later transpired versatile too.
Yes, it’s the magazine catch spring. It doesn’t do anything that I can tell. Just put there by someone who didn’t know where it really belongs. I am sure you have seen “crunchies” do similar things.
The engineers at Sterling did a very good job of making the Mk4 almost impossible to assemble wrong. I guess you can never prevent this level of…. er, “creativity.”
I can't even imagine it really Vincent...as a "Crunchie" myself, we knew what parts went where on things. Even a .30 cal in a bucket wasn't a problem... This would occur to me to be a later act by a civilian...someone with no actual knowledge. Not someone that owned and shot these regularly... I don't think it would even slip into place with that spring there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent
One of the Sterling companies claims to fame was that you couldn't assemble it wrongly. I have a feeling that the only part that you could assemble wrongly was the cocking handle.
At the time, as apprentices, when we first looked at the Sterling trigger mech I couldn't ever imagine learning how it worked and even less think that I'd ever do any more than learn it parrot fashion or by rote. Never thought that within a few weeks we'd all be able to describe it to the class and even draw it on the black board...... Or chalk board as it's now called!!!!! I could still draw it now, down to the smallest springs and pins. They obviously learned from Turpin of Sten fame too because all the pins and materials are bog standard SWG/SAE/off-the-shelf sizes. Yep, the Rolls Royce of SMG's
As BAR alludes to, we'd occasionally be called around a huge pile of parts in the middle of an old sheet and Mr Ayley or Duffield or Stone etc etc would point to a part and ask one of us to tell him what it was - and how we reached that decision because some of them would be slightly bent or polished silver instead of black..... you get my drift. If you got it wrong or tried to bluff your way through he'd call a stop and hold a bit of a discussion using the 'spoon' method (you only spoke when you were holding the spoon.....). We all became pretty damn good!
Yep, the Mk6 is a civilian semi-auto gun. Apparently, it was done by a “gunsmith.”Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
It surprised me when I found it jammed in there.Quote:
I don't think it would even slip into place with that spring there.
That’s what I thought too, but I was wrong. I have seen the return springs put in wrong. The small spring inside the big spring and the cup against the endcap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I thought this one was remarkable, so I posted the picture.
You two would enjoy the box guns. It’s a gun someone completely disassembled to clean, then couldn’t reassemble. All the individual parts are in a box. Hence the name. They have a way of showing up at cocktail parties when the owners know you are into guns.
One of my early Norton Commandos could have been described as a 'box bike'. TOTALLY stripped, into about 5 plastic boxes, degreased, bead blasted (where appropriate of course) and left for 5 years. When I got it cheap it was surprisingly complete......
I think that part of the problem here is that some people don't like to ask for help/assistance when they are not sure. I have been involved in engineering and metalwork all my life but I am the first to admit that I don't know everything there is to know on the subject and also can't do everything. I do usually know when I don't know or am not sure on a engineering subject, or anything else for that matter, and that's when I ask for help from someone else who may know. Alternatively, nowadays for most things, an answer can often be found on the internet. As an example, when I purchased my U.K. deactivated DP28 M.G. I wanted to field strip it as much as the deactivation work would allow and had, incorrectly as it turned out, assumed that the butt group would split from the receiver in a similar manner to the Bren, i.e. slide apart. When I found that after the removal of the body locking pin that it would not, I stopped trying until I had found out some more information on the subject. I found, on youtube, a video which explained how to field strip the DP28 MG and as it turned out the butt group hinged down from the rear of the receiver after the removal of the body locking pin/screw.
A box Norton! I bet that was a fun project.
I have a friend who collects old British bikes. After he rebuilds one he gets it up to 100mph. Then he drinks a beer or three and puts the bike in the living room with the rest of them.
I have a DP28 parts kit and a semi-auto receiver. Maybe it will get built someday.
Here’s the SBR converted Mk6 copy.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ing20mk6-1.jpg
I was given a large handful of those front Mk6 type bolt-on nose pieces (shown at front of casing). Did the Mk6 have a bayonet standard on the side of the casing Vince?
What makes that one a SBR converted Mk6 copy or am I missing something?
Both original Mk.6 guns I have are equipped with the bayonet standard. One has the studs for the telescope base. The Mk.6 didn't have a standard nose piece as shown in Vince's picture. They have a screw on nose cap that screws to the 16" barrel. An SBR is an NFA registered rifle/carbine with a barrel shorter than 16". The 16" barreled Mk.6 carbines imported to the USA had a dummy display barrel that bolts to the front giving it the look of a Mk.4 and also making it easy to display with bayonet fixed. Is yours a Wiselite conversion Vince? I ironed a few bugs from one several years ago for a customer. I thought they were nicely done and they were fairly inexpensive if memory serve.
I've had my share. One was when I was a training NCO at our Regimental Depot, I spied two Sargents walking down the street in front of my house with a fire pail between them and a gun barrel sticking out. They'd tried to strip a '94 Winchester carbine with a screw driver, hammer and a nail for a punch. It took me an hour to straighten out the damages and finish stripping it so I could assemble it again. I didn't get so much as a scotch at happy hour for that... Too bad, it was a nice older example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent
Yes, it’s a Wise Lite. They are not bad, but nothing like the quality of a read Sterling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
I have only seen pictures of those Sterling made nose caps for the Mk6. It’s a very hard item to find over here. The one on this gun is barrel support that has been turned down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
The real Sterling Mk6 has a bayonet standard. These guns were made by a company called Wise Lite Arms, here in Texas. They took Mk4 parts kits and made Mk6 guns from them. They didn’t install the bayonet standard for several reasons. I think it would be nice to add one to this gun, but there’s a problem.Quote:
Did the Mk6 have a bayonet standard on the side of the casing Vince?
If a bayonet standard is installed, the Mk4 barrel has to rotate to clear the back plate on the standard as it slides forward into position. The Mk6 has a blocking bar welded inside the receiver to prevent a full-auto breech block from being installed. The problem is, once the flat on the Mk4 barrel flange is over the blocking bar it prevents the barrel from rotating. Since the barrel cannot rotate, it hits against the plate on the back of the bayonet standard and stops there.
It’s verboten to remove or alter blocking bar. I have a few bayonet standards.
Any thoughts on how to work around the problem?
I think that’s why box guns show up at parties. The reassembly is free.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Maybe you could simply braze or tig the bayonet standard directly onto the casing as opposed to inserting the thick strengthening support plate inside the casing and rivetting the bayonet standard to it (it's rivetted from/through the opposite hole.....) and then induction copper brazing it. That support plate etc etc was just to strengthen the rear bayonet fitting in order to pass the UK Military trials of the time. And in reality, yours isn't going down to the bayonet fighting gallows for training any time soon.
As a matter of interest, the Sterling barrel only has a rear flange because it is a reminder of its Lanchester ancestry where the first 4,000 guns used up the remaining Lanchester barrels - albeit slightly modified at the muzzle end. That large diameter really serves no mechanical purpose as the barrel is pulled firmly forwards and squarely from the muzzle. On that basis you could simply machine away a portion of the outer radius. That would clear the blocking bar and leave you to install the correct bayonet bits.
During the last days we had Sterlings in Malaya - before AR15's, local Far East EMER's stated that we did not ZF guns with broken or missing bayonet standards as we used to because they were pretty well redundant there in any case
Thanks, Peter. Since you think the support plate is not necessary, I will try TIG welding the standard on without it.
I would guess new build body Peter. If it is a new body Vincent, (assuming it's not Class 3), have any specific body mods been made to ensure it can't easily be converted to full auto?
Yes, it’s a mostly new body. The front and rear sections of the original cut up body are welded to a new center section. It is semi-auto only and a class 3 item, an SBR (Short Barreled Rifle).
It has the same features as the Mk6 to block a full-auto bolt and trigger en bloc. There is bar welded inside the body to prevent a full-auto bolt from going in and pad is welded to the outside of the body that prevents an unmodified Mk4 trigger en bloc from being installed.
Thanks for that Vincent, it's a great boys toy. I would love a live example..