4T range report

Hello all,

Back in January I picked up a well-used No4T for $590. Over the months, I managed to scrounge up an equally used No32 mk1 scope, and an original mount. I cleaned the cat hair and lint out of the rifle prior to shooting. Although the rifle has never been through FTR, the original forearm still sits tight in the draws. Bore is frosty, but rifling is strong. I shot some "Click-Bang" POF 303 through it, and it shot OK, averaging 2.5 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards. Attachment 77712Attachment 77711Attachment 77710


I threw together some handloads last night for todays range visit. I was pleasantly surprised.

Shot a 12-round group 100 yards, Measuring 1-5/8 x 2 inches. Attachment 77713

Next, shot an 8-round group at 200 yards, measuring 2-1/4 x 2-1/2 inches. Attachment 77714

Then, a lovely Santa Ana wind blew in out of the northeast. Sustained half-value winds of 25mph. Still manage to put 15-rounds into a group of 3-7/8 x 2-3/4. Attachment 77715

It became too windy to even attempt 300 yards. It was blowing so strong, it knocked down target stands at that distance. Still, I couldn't be happier with the rifles performance. Especially after the hard life it apparently lived before moving in to my gun safe. And I'm also happy with the scopes' performance. After initial zero, I've not had to make any adjustments other than minor windage and elevation moves. Although it's like looking through a dirty fish tank (or beer goggles), its still a performer!Attachment 77716

Hope you all like the pics.

Congrats in such a nice rifle and performance. I too would be very happy with it!
Scope still doing its stuff as well. Yes, a grand set-up and thanks for sharing your experience.

Best regards,
Richard.

A rifle with history; could have been in Italy or NW Europe unlike the vast majority of the 44/45 rifles that seem to have spent decades in storage for the most part.

Next time you take the scope & bracket off, look for any markings on the top of the front pad will you? Or post a photo if you wish? I have a hunch.

Good timing, I was just about to clean it! Here are the photos; no marks to be seen. If these rifles could only talk...

Thanks for those photos. I asked because although 1943 was probably too late for "trials rifle" left overs, the face of your front pad looked large enough to be of that origin. Or it could just be less rounding of the edges in manufacture of course; a coincidental variation of no significance. I don't think we even know if the inspector's mark for put on after the pads were fitted or just after they were made. I was wondering if we might see this.

Rob, the front pads on H&H set up rifles do show some variations over the production history. The early rifles seem to have been fitted with front pads that bear a more rounded top edge (the rounded off rightangle between the face bearing the screw holes & the face consisting of the two flat 'shoulders' either side of the spigot). Later rifles seem to be much less generously rounded! My experiences mean that I am referring to a relatively small sample size, but I wondered if anyone else had noticed this?

There were variations in the top edge radii even on the largish number of unfitted/unfinished front pads that I acquired from the old factory before it was demolished. I think this was due to the radius cutters used for this operation. Indeed, on one of the unfinished examples it clearly shows where the radius cutter has chomped a chunk away.

Got the springs I sent DRP?

Yes thanks. I'll now have enough springs to sort out the few tatty ex Indian No32 scopes I have to try & repair! 15 pounds on its way to you for the spring maker's efforts.
But to get back on track, I'm pretty impressed both with smleaddict's rifle & his shooting! These old war horses can still come up with the goods!

Best to all.

Some other bits on the way tomorrow Rog, happy clicking:lol:

Thank you DRP. Yes, If I do my bit, the rifles really do perform to their standard. I get true enjoyment out of loading for and shooting the 303. And, I seem to be the only one in this county who loads 303, so I'm able to buy up all the bullets when they hit the shelves!

I appreciate all the thanks and nice comments.

Thanks smleaddict, & also to Geoff. I won't deviate too much from this thread, but last Summer, in Belgium, I bought a few basket case No32's that have seen very hard service in India, & they are rusty, dented, missing various parts & in a generally sorry state. But, with the bits Geoff is making, a few springs, & some advice, I am hoping to make a long term restoration project of them. But don't hold your breath!

I haven't done any reloading for 303 in years, although I have the stuff still. What powder(s) do you find best smleaddict?

ATB

Thanks Rog, but its down to Peters advice also that has got the "ball rolling" thinking outside the box does pay dividends at times. As for loading .303 this side of the pond, N140 is a popular choice.

hi

have you tried ww2 ammo ?

it will shoot better

Good Morning

DRP-I have had the best results with the IMR stick powders; 4064, 3031, and 4895 (in that order of accuracy), and Varget (lower pressure). I do like N140, but it a bit spendy on this side of the world. It's accurate, is good as the IMR stuff, and meters much better. I buy when I see it, but it is more $$. I like W760 with magnum primers for low pressure loads in my older Lee-Metfords. Bullet selection is hit and miss (no pun!). In general, The 4T's seem to like the Sierra Boat tails, or heavier flat-based spitzers.

I have found that works best for me is to seat the bullet out as far as possible. I have, in the past, seated them a few thousandths off of the rifling, but then they don't fit into the magazine. So now, I seat them to where they just clear the magazine front. For me, cartridge overall length is between 3.045 to 3.060.

PhilB-I have used WW2 vintage ammo, with mixed results. I had some 1944 ammo, and it was all "click-bang". There is a bunch of POF still available around over here, and it is all "click-bang" as well. I bought 1000 rounds of HXP, and that stuff is great. Consistently prints 2" to 3" groups. I get better results with my handloads, but that's just me.

And time to give credit where credit is due: attached pic is of my Savage (T-less). Mount is one of Roger Payne's repro brackets, 2/1 scope repaired by Mr. Laidler. 6-shot group printed .83" x .75" @ 100yds with handloads. This is what I call a team effort, so thank you PL and DRP!

edit: forgot to add-Sierra 174bt's over 4064. Winchester brass w/match primers

Thanks for the tips about powder. What sort of bullets do you find work the best in your Metfords? I have a couple of early Speeds and a Mk I Metford I would like to shoot and would like to use the best bullets in them. Do you use cast or jacketed?

Thx

Ed

Another vote for N 140. My .303 Br. L-E N°4 MkI* shoots quite well with 174 SMK / N 140 / 40.0 but, considering the present cost of SMK's, I decided to try bulk (500) 174 PPU FMJ. Prior to loading them, I discovered that their weight varied from 172.2 to 174.2, a full 2.0 g !! I then weighted each of them, segregating lots not more than .2 g apart (honestly, I know of more pleasant occupations...). Anyway, I handloaded some ammo, starting at 39.0 to ascertain that my pet load of 40.0 g was still ok with the new bullet. I then burned 5 shots to bring down my sights to POA at 100 meters before settling down and and carefully firing my last 10 rounds. I was pleasantly surprised to recover a 10-shot group of 7,2 cm (2.5 MOA), over issue iron sights ! Weighting lots is a tedious affair but the reward is bullets as good as SMK, at 1/3 of the cost... I intend to repeat the experience with .308 bullets which I use a lot (.308 Win, .30-06, .300 win, 7,5x55).

Here's the target described above. https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...qiws7rfr-1.jpg

Considering it was fired in a standard N°4 (FTR'd at Fazakerley in '53, with new stock and barrel), chances are it might even do better in a 4T.

Hello boltaction,

I also have a Metford Mk I*, and I shoot a cast bullet made by Bitterroot. It's a 205 grain .314 bullet. I use Win760 over magnum primers in a reduced load that pushes around 1200fps. It's not a great long range load, but it'll hit the targets at 100 yards. I get a kick just out of being able to shoot the old rifle. I also have a small stock of IMR sr4579, which is great for reduced loads, but has been discontinued. When I finally run out, I'll try trailboss for the light loadings.

I have two Metfords MK IIs with great bores, and for those I use 215 grain Woodleighs with IMR4064 or 3031. The Woodleighs are SPENDY$$$, so I am only able to shoot a few here and there. One of my Metfords likes to throw spitzers and boat tails sideways, but happily eats up the Woodleighs. An expensive range trip, but fun nonetheless.

My friend shoots 500gn Woodleighs in his 460 Weatherby magnum at $3/AU each does not take long to go through $20 worth of projectiles

I suppose with a 460 Weatherby magnum the question is which gives out first! the shoulder or the wallet?:thup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smle addict

When I finally run out, I'll try trailboss for the light loadings.

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I use unique for downloads/ gallery loads for .308, .303 .30-06 etc, never had any issues with any and have shot plenty, the best load for .308/7.62m is 14grns of Unique behind a.30 RN 110grn bullet.
I loaded up various calibre's with different measures etc some time back to be tested for pressures when next at the proof house, last time I went I forgot them so been sitting there a while.... another thing to add to my job list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

I use unique for downloads/ gallery loads for .308, .303 .30-06 etc, never had any issues with any and have shot plenty, the best load for .308/7.62m is 14grns of Unique behind a.30 RN 110grn bullet.
I loaded up various calibre's with different measures etc some time back to be tested for pressures when next at the proof house, last time I went I forgot them so been sitting there a while.... another thing to add to my job list.

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I too use Unique for downloading with excellent results. My nearest (and most frequently visited) range is only 50m and has certain limitations in place. I use 10 grains of Unique and a 174 grain .303 bullet and it works a treat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dinosaur1

I too use Unique for downloading with excellent results. My nearest (and most frequently visited) range is only 50m and has certain limitations in place. I use 10 grains of Unique and a 174 grain .303 bullet and it works a treat.

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Do you use any packing in the case or just the 10grns ? Only ask as I use just unique no packing or wadding etc.