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Just a quick thank you to Geoff / bigduke6 for refurbishing my Indian 1A bayonet. It looks fantastic and you are very kind. :thup:
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Nice work indeed.
Very nice...
Very nice. He does make a good job. I think that the catch should be the short one but a simple modification to make. The later ones were a casting so VERY hard to file initially! Unless someone in the UK happens to have a more common UK short type spare one in their spare parts tin......... Just a dob of black paint on the screws and it can go back into the armoury.......
I reckon I better fit the grips to mine!
Here's an idea Peregrine or someone equally skilled, that would make a good interesting and informative pictorial montage/thread. Especially with your photographic and compu'a skills wot I ain't not got.
What about a photo montage of the UK L1 type bayonet, No5, Indian long (and short - although not really necessary) to show them relative to each other. Blade lengths, grip types, screw/rivet hole linear relationship etc etc.
pergrinvs, is the scabbard an original long Indian example or a standard length No5 scabbard that has been "stretched"? I think that I may be able to see a possible weld scar in the pictures in post 1???
I recently saw a suggestion that the reason that the No7 bayonet was stopped from being issued for front line use, and relegated for ceremonial use only, is because there was an incident/accident of a bullet hitting the muzzle ring. I am slightly sceptical of this claim but I don't really know if there could be any truth in it or not?
No truth in that nonsense whatsoever. It was just FAR too expensive to produce, totally unreliable and the blade, that was rivetted to the grip tube just behind the crosspiece, would become loose while you were looking at it!
Added a bit later to this......... Someone suggested somewhere along the line in the distant past that the No9 short blade part of the No9 bayonet t(hat's just rivetted into the socket part don't forget.....) could have originated from the remaining un-made short blades from the No7 blades. I just throw this in. If anyone had a stripped down No7 bayonet, perhaps they could verify the veracity or likelihood of this being a reasonable theory. It's always been well known among the old 50's and 60's era of Armourers that the No7 bayonet was nothing but trouble.
If the blade theory is or could be correct, it opens up the possibility that a replacement blade for a broken bladed No7 could be replaced by a suitably modified No9 donor blade - and cheap too.
Regarding the Indian 'long' scabbards. I seem to remember refitting one out with a new spring and mouthpiece for someone at work several years ago and seem to recall that the 6BA(?) mouthpiece screw hole didn't even remotely align with the screw-hole in the new UK spring and brass mouthpiece that I was fitting Re-drilling and threading the brass mouthpiece was simple enough but the hard spring was difficult to mark and drill! Did it eventually of course. But just another of the little differences between the UK standard and Indian long scabbards. Never seen or maybe never noticed one of the Indian standard No5/L1A1 scabbards. Is the screw hole positioned lower on their standard scabbards?
Just had a long conversation to the former Chief Examiner and technical writer regarding the No7 bayonets of the era about whether the bullet could ever in reality, strike the crosspiece. It couldn't unless it was a 'set-up' trial. BUT he did concede that it was always suspected that the muzzle blast from a No4 rifle fitted with a No7 bayonet would definately strike the crosspiece which definately COULD and WOULD loosen the crosspiece which was fixed to blade which was in turn, rivetted to the grip tube. And once the rivets were re-tightened it became an unfixable lost cause!
This blast effect would not affect the integrity of the bayonet when used on a Sten gun. From this you can understand that while the bayonet looked good on the No4, to shoot the rifle with it fixed was the death knell for the bayonet.
Interesting if you think about it.
Added later: Parts list picture of bayonet stripped shown in back part of Sten Gun book
It would simply take a bite out of the ring and that would be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
And a bite out of your ring could be painful I hasten to add. Well......., had to add that! Dark, foggy afternoon and..........
Shaggy dog story now so look away now - except for BAR and Muffer who've been there and chased us around the ranges...........
When the catch on an L1A1 fails (or it's not attached firmly they move forwards a tad during recoil and the muzzle ring can drop off the F/E. But the close tolerance at the catch end doesn't seem to allow the bullet to catch the ring - the bayonet just drops off! We had to shoot with bayonets fixed on the 'advance to contact' shoots*. Always an adrenaline rush with RCO's shouting and bawling at the 25yd squat or kneel firing point where we were meant to keep both eyes open! *I don't seem to remember these advance to contact shoots in the UK, only in Malaya and Australia. Keeping both eyes open and in the crouched aim was purgatory because even with one of those green beeny or jungle hats on (also called 'CAPS, Cxxx') the sweat would pour down and into your eyes and sting like mad until you could douse them clean with your water bottle. For the first Op Training shoots you filled your 2x water bottles with water and that powdered orange or lemon powder that was meant to be sugar free. But it still turned sticky so the next time - just plain water that started off cool from the chiller outside the kitchen but was hot within an hour!
I always had my gas fully closed because if you had a gas stoppage on the run-downs and last 100 yard, fix bayonet and advance to contact phase, the RCO's would just shout and bawl even more and it was NEVER the fault of the rifle or ammo, just the bloke who's head was 'full of sxxx and twigs'. And if you were one of the lightweight young slim nashos shooting from the crouched down/on your haunches/squatting position and rolled backwards from the recoil, well....... it was like the world had come to an end. Talking of which, I wonder where my mate Alan Sanford is now? Happy days........ Yes they were looking back and great blokes too
Wish I'd taken to enjoying myself more during out monthly Military Training phases. Only 3 or 4 days a month or as as I remember, just to keep you on your toes...... unlimited ammo, blank, pyrotechnics and grenades
And who would weld it shut again for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
The rest I remember, never put anything but water in your water vessels...or it comes back to bite you in the...well, you get it.
Thanks Mark, looks good, but were credit is due think another member here is also responsible for bringing it back up to scratch ??Quote:
Originally Posted by peregrinvs
Always a pleasure to help out, and to be honest the small area I did ( from the crosspiece to the pommel were sand blasted then finished with the phosphate) doesn't take too much time but its a always race against the weather and I rather do a batch of stuff as getting covered in grit and sand is the same as what they say about the sand when your on the beach........hence the time factor from posting to being returned.
Pete, The orange/ yellow Powdered was known as Jungle juice. Or screech by the unit cooks/ chefs..Have you seen the inside of a white porcelain mug after drinking this stuff?.......The staining made me wonder what it did to our insides!....:ugh:
I had a few mates in the Army Catering Corps (It was always a wise move to have mates in that Corps. For MY part, I always ate VERY well indeed!.....;) )
They informed Me that they also used it for scrubbing down Formica table tops!!!! How corrosive was that stuff?.........:madsmile:
that jungle juice stuff came as orange and lemon and was very much an acquired taste. I quite liked it but it came to us in tins (the UK stuff or VERY rarely,) the Aust stuff, in sachets. Most of us would keep a few sachets in our pouches but once the sachet was opened the damp would get to the sachet no matter how tightly you closed it. No seal-top bags then! Jungle juice......... We also used get a sort of biscuit wrapped in tight cellophane called 'ANZACS' they were very nice
Kind of like whiskey sours in Cyprus...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler