Printable View
I wanted to show these 2 Pictures of Cut down M2's in Vietnam. I had thought by '70 the M16 was the main Rifle used by all Infantry men by this time.
Caption
Early 1970: B Company 1/50 (cut down M1 Carbine). I think it should of said M2 Carbine in the Caption. Wasn't there Stocks already made like this ? Can anyone point of out more details in these Pictures.
Plainfield machine got a contract to make new m2 carbines for the Vietnamese police around 1971. Many of
these guns were sold to police supply companies. They had folding stocks like a mat49. I have one along with
a Plainfield m2 in a normal Plainfield stock. They also made some like your picture, I think it was called the
enforcer.
Frank,
Maybe M1 is correct. I can't tell from those pictures if it is an M2 or not. Could just be an M1 with a thrity round magazine. We had M2's on our boat. But others had M1's.
I like the M3 Grease Gun. I had to sell mine in 1986, Calif laws.
Cool pictures, reminds me of a not so fun time.
Jim...I thought those are Potbelly Stocks that's why I thought they were M2's. I love those Grease Guns.
We've had a full thread on these, I had one some years back myself. These aren't Enforcers, they looked like an M1A1 without the folder. These are simply M1/M2s cut down because that's what was available. From friends that were there, besides Jim here...I understand they weren't scarce and could be had above and beyond what you were issued. So, why not cut one down and have it for a fungun. It would give you enough snap to do the job at CQB...Quote:
Originally Posted by can14
Potbelly stocks were just an addition, the switch would be the tell and we can't see. One can assume though.
Would these Soldiers be SP carrying Small Arms ?
Are they what?Quote:
Originally Posted by imntxs564
Sorry...Special Forces or Recon Unit.
The first pic is first field force... Second we can see the first guy again... I Field Force, Vietnam - Wikipedia
Maybe a TUNNEL RAT?
When punching in a google picture search of "m1 carbines in vietnam" this same picture pops up. The next picture shows a Plainfield.
Have seen many pictures of 'Modified' carbine stocks. Many in the Philippines.
Side note, Had a interesting talk with a guy at the range about special ammo left for the NVA courtesy of the US. I'll post about it in the next couple days after getting my ducks in a row.
Cheers;
Charlie-Painter777
pictures of m1 carbine in vietnam - Google Search
The NVA apparently liked them too. I've seen several versions of what they did that looked like these.Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
Like this one here, JimQuote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Unknown Date: Ho Chi Minh with VC Guerilla pointing to M2 selector lever.
I think they see it's a hand stamped! :dancingbanana:
Sorry just had to.
Charlie-Painter777
Here is Bring Back M2 that a Vietnam Soldier got caught with. It doesn't say what happened to him. I wonder if I can chase this story down where I found it.
So...they realize it needs BATF paper? Now they're worried?Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
It was kind of a catch-all command that they used when things got bigger faster. When I arrived in May 1966 we were attached to the 1st Cav. Went from there to MACV which was country wide. when that got too big it went to corps size control. For II Corps up in the highlands and coastal provinces Khan Hoa, Binh dinh, etc. It became IFFV , down south they had 2FFV. Maneuver battalions were 25 Div 101st 1st Cav. 4th Div replaced the 25th which went south. There were single units that were used in IFFV , 50th Inf a track unit was use a lot up by Bong Son area. My guess is that these guys are engineers, arty or something other than Infantry. We used to wear jungle fatigues with absolutely nothing on them, no patch, rank nothing, but infantry usually has the CIB on their blouse.
Good points Dave, that's the sort of stuff not written in these Wiki details...Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
I was north of there a year later... It was possible back then to trade for or buy a variety of weapons if you were in rear areas - so you might run into almost any sort of odd materiel... I kept a sawed off shotgun with a musette bag with a hundred rounds just for my jeep to keep anyone from jumping on board (I was out and about occasionally by myself.... just south of Hue). NO it wasn't a particularly good idea - and I didn't learn until years later how little I knew about shotguns or tactics back then... Any time we came into contact with spooks, though, we always knew who they were just by their weaponry (they were the only folks in my area that had Uzi's).
I pretty much figured anyone actually using weapons in regular units wouldn't ever have bothered with some of the exotic stuff you'd find in rear areas - but I could be wrong...
Remember the accepted figure during that era was seven personnel in rear areas for every one actual combat soldier out on the pointy edge of things...
That was what I was referring to earlier. Still sort of that way...Quote:
Originally Posted by lemaymiami
It sure does look like this Short M2 was sought after by some Vietnam Soldiers. One Soldier is Proudly Showing off his and the other guy is looking at his like he just acquired one or maybe traded for it and looking it over and getting ideas to go get some.
We also had one shotgun with flechette shells. These worked for flushing brush you were concerned about.
We used to call these Combat Casey photos. Most people took them to send home. Most of the cool weapons were never actually used, they just were there to make folks go Wow. When I got there in 66 there weren't a huge number of GIs in country yet. After a year there were hundreds of thousands. We stretched all the rules and people didn't care. It was a giant filthy camping trip with guns. Our living conditions were horrible, really bad. We had lots of guys catch hepatitis, you could catch fevers and be sick for weeks. We had a bubonic plague epidemic in spring of 67. When I was drafted I was 20 years old and had no fat, when I came home I'd lost about 20 lbs of muscle and had high blood pressure. 22 and had tinnitus and high blood pressure. We lived in rat infested tents. There were no Instamatic cameras that we knew about, but we had a combat photog unit in our camp so we had a few photos. The very last thing on my list before a convoy was a camera, they were expensive and fragile, they stayed at camp. Here is a picture of a combat casey moment but it was legit I had a full auto M14 in the truck. This was on Hwy 1 about 15 klicks n/o Cam Rahn Bay. Those mountains in the background were like an R&R area for VC and NVA, the Cav came up with a load of arty on tracks and infantry and ran a sweep through there. Didn't find much. Now up at Pleiku...different story. Notice the M3 and flack vest, no uniform, just a tee shirt and web gear, field cap instead of baseball cap, we weren't playing baseball and I ain't wearing that pot unless I needed it.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bc00f5_o-1.jpg
Didn't you stop one time so all the guys could wring out an M2 carbine in that area? Was that you?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
DaveHH:
"We lived in rat infested tents. "
Hello DaveHH, I've had you and JimF on my mind while going thru this thread.
Ya'll have my greatest respect for your service, and of course the many others here whose names currently escape me or I've flat forgot about.
My earliest mentor who so kindly walked me thru so many "How To on these forums' Harlan Bless his sole. We often talked on the phone about you two and the sacrifices you and your families must have gone thru.
I happened across a story yesterday about GI's and how they fought off rats in there tents especially during the rain/monsoon seasons. Rats so big they referred to them as "BFRs".
This info from the Smith-Wesson site. Post is titled UNUSUAL GUNS OF VIETNAM. This reply is #8 by member LONG BARREL. Here is his reply......... Below his reply I'll attach a link to the complete thread.
Post #8 by Member Long Barrel- What I really wanted but couldn't find was a .22LR rifle to use in our bunkers against the immense rats (we called them BFRs) that came inside during the monsoon. We finally made a special 45 round by pulling the slug, putting tissue paper over the power, placing an Artillery Plotting Needle in the center and then filling up the remaining space with melted candle wax. We'd field-strip the 1911, carefully ease the needle round into the barrel, then re-assemble the loaded gun. Shoot the rat, and pin it to the bunker wall, then the GI's dogs would get it. Great sport!
__________________
Long Barrel
Retired Artilleryman
Unusual Guns Of Vietnam:
Unusal guns of Vietnam
Cheers,
Charlie-Painter777
I have an acquaintance who recounted picking up an ARVN M1 to replace his early M-16. You know the self cleaning ones as first issued. Lacked the ballistics of the .556 but he said it never failed to go bang when the trigger was pulled.
Mosul comes to mind after reading this.
All the equipment left for ISIS could have been left with a HAPPY ENDING waiting for them.
OPERATION ELDEST SON
Project Eldest Son – The Top Secret U.S. Scheme to Sabotage the Enemys Own Rifles in Vietnam | militaryhistorynow.com
Charlie-Painter777
Thanks for reminding be of this. I never knew the Op name but had read of it. Talk about a Psy-op. It would be hard to pull the trigger with that going around.
The one on the left is just an M1A1 with the stock folded. Can't tell if it has the happy switch.Quote:
Originally Posted by imntxs564
Jim: Yes that was me and that was pretty much in the same area, near the rubber plantation.
Thanks Charlie. Jim Flavin was the real deal. I was in a Signal Bn. These convoys and very dangerous airplane rides in the highlands were about all I did.
The rats were there from the very beginning and after dark they came out from under the flooring in the tents and took over. You didn't want to pass out drunk somewhere because they would snack on you while you slept. Lots of Viets had scars from rat bites as babies. The spring of 67 there was an outbreak of bubonic plague which is endemic to that area. They said it came in on a German ship, I don't know. They quarantined our whole area. The rats all started to get sick and die. You'd spot one sitting in the middle of your hooch just staring at you, sick as a dog. These were really big rats, the dominant ones were huge probably close to 3lbs and 18-20" long. Viets ate rats they were that big. Anyway no GIs died, we had all had plague shots, so we probably had it but didn't get sick over it. If you've had a plague shot you'll remember it the rest of your life. It made a whole bunch of soldiers sick and sore beyond belief for a couple of days. Many Viets died.
Sorry about boring everyone with this stuff. Not a day goes by that I don't think of that place.
Dave....This is NOT BORING STUFF at all. While I read what you are saying I'm putting my mind and myself there and just trying to imagine this.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
We had those in basic...and spent days moping around after.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
I think we All remember those Shots... BT in the Corp is 13 weeks, but the first week doesn't count. That's when you get straighten out with all the paperwork, Medical, and all the goodies that go along with what you need for the 12 Week program. The process can take up to 36 hrs before you hit the rack. I seem some NR's having side effects from those injections. Talk about the walking dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
That's right, the first day for us is all that admin. Usually you came in on the weekend so Monday you were ready to start getting started...painful crap to remember now. To think later I was ramrodding it...
Nice M14 with Cut Off Stock. Don't cut the Barrel off with this one....
I have a flag that IIRC was from a battle in the central highlands. To be honest I don't remember if it was from the bad guys or good guys. I received it in trade from a buyer who couldn't come up with the funds $$. I'll try to photo it and post.
Charlie
Definitely not Combat Casey stuff.....red mud and rain. These guys look like Marines. No covers...I'd bet that the stock isn't cut off, its just under someones arm. God I loved that M14.Quote:
Originally Posted by imntxs564
Thats what I thought, but caption said "M14 with Cut Rear Stock"...I'll look in my History and see if I can find it, but I can see where its cut or the person just glanced at it and Posted like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
Caption: "Sawn-Off M14 and M79 grenade launcher in Vietnam"
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
Quote:
Originally Posted by imntxs564
Hard to tell with the grainy blow up of it but it just doesn't look like the comb is there behind the small...I've had my share of M14s too... I wouldn't see why cut the stock though.
Agree, not boring, a bit chilling. I recall those rats were as big as small domesticated cats.
That's what I heard from the guys we had that were there too...big enough to dispatch with handguns.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimF4M1s
My Colt XM16E1 came from a Canadian observer who spent two years in Vietnam.
One of the guys in my hooch got a Slim Jim from home. I had a rat trap and asked the kid for a piece of slim jim for bait. I tied a piece of cord onto the trap and a tent stake pounded into the sand. I didn't want to lose my trap. I set it down in the sand between hooches and figured that sometime in the night I'd get a rat. It wasn't even dark yet and a big, really big dominant rat came out from under the pallet floor. He grabbed that slim jim and the trap snapped on him right across his face. He got up and shook his head until the trap came off, took a step or two and died where he stood. I had a glove and put it on and took it down to show the first Sergeant what we lived with. It was huge, he told me to get lost. I threw it back into the sand and by the next day the ants ate it. There was nothing but a fur hide and a tail. Flat as a pancake.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimF4M1s
I would of put it a box and wrapped it like a present and left it somewhere by him with a Thank You Card...That Rat was so big he shook off the trap but died 2 steps later, that is Wild !...I'm getting a pretty good visual of these Monster Rats your talking about. I wonder if these rats were the size of Churchill's Explosive Rats. If so, they could of held plenty of explosives.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
When I was in in '74 to '77, I knew some guys that were SF over there in the early 1960s. One senior Sgt. actually preferred his M2 Carbine over the early AR15 (probably a 601 or 602) he had been issued. He said he carried more ammo for the weight, it was more tolerant of bad conditions, and he too said it alway went bang. He said they were always fighting Charlie up close, so it had plenty of power. My dad used an M1 carbine on Iwo Jima the night of the big Bonzai charge when their compound was nearly over run. He only said "It never let me down".
That was when I joined too...through the first few years I met a few US troops that had done Korea carrying a greasegun or RVN with a number of weapons. I tried to absorb as much info as possible, knowing it would go away.Quote:
Originally Posted by imarangemaster
I was drafted in Aug 1965 that was 20 years after WW2. Our turn came up. In the 5th Inf Div we had many SFC and SSG that were Korean vets finishing out their careers. Our Command SGTM in Vietnam was a Korean war Inf. vet. He extended after I left and was killed by a claymore mine after a couple of months. My section SFC in Vietnam was a 101st battle of the bulge vet. He was shot across the shins by a German captured and the German field hospital put steel plates in both his shins to save his legs. He said that one day the hospital would be friendly the next it was German, the doctors just stayed and worked on whoever they brought in. I talked to everyone I could to learn the history.
I don't think that today our little snowflakes that are crying and hiding in safe rooms with puppies because they are disappointed over an election could do what we had to do. It's a damned shame too, the greatest generation put a lot of blood into that flag.
I just thought it was a term of endearment as I heard it used often. I apologize if anyone found it to be offensive. It was not intended as such and I have many other much better offensive words to use if that was my intent. I have been doing a lot of "Ready, Fire, Aim" lately...age??
Again sorry
Dave
The M1/M2 never really let down any of our personnel in Vietnam. Out to 100 yards, the damned thing works! With civilian loads, it works even better. The "Light Rifle" is still "what the doctor ordered". It had been a reliable "man-stopper" in Police, Corrections, Military and Civilian hands. It has worked for more than 75 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by imarangemaster
God bless the 7.62 X 33 Carbine!
I always noticed the pronounced smack of the round at 200 yds on the steel plate at my range. I still wouldn't want a hit from one. Hope we don't go through this whole thing again now...
Part of being a snowflake is being over sensitive though so I wouldn't worry about offending people who are always offended about something or another. Also, I doubt too many of them hand around sites like this anyway...nuff said.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
Hell Dave I thought you were talking about me. Spent most of yesterday and last night trying to snow throw our first major snow storm!! Crazed City snow plow drivers are the enemy!!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
Today, my birthday has been spent crying, hiding and sore as hell, just staring out at the white abyss (sp?)
I'm not going out there again..... :surrender::surrender:
What happened to the kids knocking at the door to make a few $$ to shovel or mow?
I've circled my wagons until the thaw,
Cheers,
Charlie-painter777
You can spend the frozen season cleaning guns and cycling brass until you can see green again Charlie...which could be Apr/May on a bad year there.Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
US weaponry used by current resistance fighters.
CH-P777
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../01/orig-1.jpg
Our designated rat killers, TNT & Fred, around Sep/Oct 1965. You can tell because of the uniforms. The big guy (Fred) used an entrenching tool as his preferred rat slaying weapon. We had lots of them.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...PICT0152-1.jpg
AZB
When Rambo was down in the mine in 'First Blood' he screamed out when the rats climbed over him while he carried his torch. But only a grunt when free falling 150' down into a tree..........
AZB, That's a lot of rat!
Sure glad PETA wasn't around yet.
I'd better stop there................. :rolleyes:
Charlie-painter777
Looks like lots of the stuff we've been discussing is still in circulation over there. No wonder it won't come back. They ain't done with it yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
Well Happy Birthday Charlie. I didn't see your name come up in the watering hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
Jim
AZB, That's a lot of rat!
Sure glad PETA wasn't around yet.
I'd better stop there................. :rolleyes:
You mean People Eating Tasty Animals?
I have that bumper sticker on my beater pick up. Living near U of M and closer yet to MSU college I love seeing the reactions of people in the rear view mirror. My neighbor is a professor @ MSU and studies/teaches about small mammals. For her it's like looking at the holocaust in my backyard during the summer months, with my mole traps cocked and locked :yikes:Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY
I'd better quit, getting way off topic.
Dave, the thing I love about this forum is the, shall we say "robust" conversation.. I joined , listened, and participate on the basis that saying what you think isn't a bad thing, as long as it's appropriate, respectful and constructive - which I think you've done. Doesn't mean it can't be a little provocative! 😀
Thanks Mate,
We could use a little technicolor lunch talk here. Political correctness is straight out of Lenin's handbook.
Dave
Ain't it the truth? I wish that they would re-issue the M1, M1A1, and M2 Carbines. Not only were they effective, but are even more controllable than the "shorty" M16A2 rifle(s). Believe me, the men and women carrying them wouldn't complain about their weight or effective range or rate of fire. Load them up with Underwood ammunition and they would be more effective than hollowpoint/soft point ammunition and everyone would be happy. I guarantee that cold weather performance would not be lacking and they could carry more ammunition that once thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
All you need is 50 billion rounds of Underwood's "Extreme Cavitator" ammunition and all would be right for 99.8% of urban fighting/house clearing.
Hahhahaha! Snowflakes... In seven years of teaching i ran into a lot of students that were "Snowflakes". Funny thing is, it was teaching in California. When I taught in the rural mid-west, there was Junior ROTC, recruiters in the schools, and kids with patriotism. California, they were lazy, video game playing pansies. The only exception was the Continuation high school. A lot of those kids were tough from the mean streets, and did not expect to be coddled. I venture to say a higher percentage of those students went in than the regular California high schools.
My parents generation were mostly WWII vets. Muy dad and almost all of his brothers served in the Pacific.. My generation, we had a high percentage of vets. In my family, myself, one brother, and my sister were vets. We were still raised with a sense of service.
My Dad was 4F having had his legs ran over by a Model T truck as a boy I had four uncles in WWII. None that I know of served in Korea. My brother, myself and my fathers oldest offspring were all Air Force as well as two cousins (one of which went in as a Airman Basic and retired 25 years later as a Major. One of his sons just recently retired as a Major after 25 years in the AF) Another cousin was in the Navy and another did his time in the Marine reserves.
To steal a quote started on the Canal
And when I go to heaven to St Peter I will tell another Vet (Originally Marine) Reporting sir I served my time in Hell
I'd have to respectfully disagree here. I just shot my M2 and shorty m16 today and believe it or not I find my m16 a little more controllable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain O
If I'm looking at an eminent gunfight, the M16 or M14 would be my first choice.
A few dozen posts back there was a story about spiking enemy ammo dumps with bad rounds. One of my good friends from Petaluma was a SF Medic. He told me about those exercises. They would randomly open cases of ammo and drop in these explosive rounds. He said that they would generally kill the guy, at least that's what he heard. Makes sense, you have to abandon the whole thing. If you don't have the people to haul it out, blowing it is the alternative. That would leave a lot of rounds that were scattered but still good. This worked 100%. He had a brand new Chinese Tokarev 33 with a brand new holster that he pilfered out of one of the ammo dumps they wrecked. He said there was a whole case of them.
D
This sound exactly what some Studies and Observations Groups would do in Vietnam. Atleast thats what I read in a couple of Books. They had Sabotage Missions down to a T. These guys were maniacs and lived there lives way behind enemy lines. It's Just incredible what type of missions they would do.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
A very interesting thread. I worked in Kuwait in 1991/92 for a US company doing EOD work. Our Team Leader was a Vietnam Vet called Jim W*****. He had spent 6.5yrs in Vietnam, was recruited and worked for the spooks. He told me about the spiking of ammo. They pulled rounds and filled the cases with PETN, then reassembled them. They were placed amongst ammo dumps, and they were almost captured doing so on more than one occasion.
He was also sent to purchase weapons on the black market, with briefcases full of USD, to prevent the NVN getting hold of them. Once such consignment was crates full of WW2 era 'Grease Guns'. He said they couldn't get rid of them, nobody wanted them (US/SVN side) so they were dumped in the harbour.
He had many other stories, none of which I had any reason to doubt. His uniform photo bore 13 combat stripes, he said everyone kept asking if he'd been a POW!
Roy,
I gotta ask because I don't know....
Is PETN the stuff like Nitro, and or Semtex, that's like crystal?
Same type or similar to what the terrorist are trying to use on planes... etc ?
Thx
Charlie-Painter777
Pentaerythritol tetranitrate - Wikipedia For what it's worth...Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
[QUOTE=browningautorifle;404989][url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentaerythritol_tetranitrate"]Pentaerythritol tetranitrate
That's the stuff. Often found as a white powder, used in detonating cord (det cord) and other booster charges. Easy to fill a bullet case with.
And that in it's self was good fun...F.I.B. too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy W
Indeed, Det Cord can be very useful. Mind you, all explosives are fun......................except Russian PMNs, they are pure evil!Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Tie the knots in the det cord at appropriate spots and lay it beside them. Blow them in place...I wouldn't bother lifting anything...Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy W
OOPs, off topic...sorry.
Have to add my M2 carbine story. Our company commander had an M2 carbine. Most of the time he stayed mounted on his ACAV, but on one occasion he was dismounted and accompanying the scout platoon through some triple canopy. Contact was made and in the ensuing firefight, he fired his carbine. Since it didn't sound like an an AK-74, an M16 or an M60, so he drew return fire from both sides. He did not use it dismounted again.
:yikes: What fun...Quote:
Originally Posted by old tanker
Quote:
Originally Posted by old tanker
And who could blame him ?Quote:
Originally Posted by old tanker
I'd never have given that thought...
Thx for sharing that,
Charlie-Painter777