"Bataan" M1903s from Federal Ordnance from 1991 - ad

Some time ago, I posted about some "Bataan" M1903s that had been sold by Federal Ordnance over 25 years ago and sought some input. I was told that they had been imported from the Philippines but had been refinished and totally rebuilt.

On the M1903 Facebook page, someone posted an ad they saw in a 1991 issue of "Man at Arms" Magazine and this was the ad I remember. I saw it in a "pulp" magazine about WWii. The rifle sold for $599 and bayonets at $97.00. I thought the price was $800, but was obviously mistaken.

There was no finish left and my friend John Beard said a couple of parts had been replaced. There were 879 of them and they were sold with the usual "certificate of authenticity" and even a brass plate. Of course, the only thing that was certain was that they came from the Philippines. They could have been left by American troops in 1944-45 or imported at a later time.

However, if any of you happen to know someone who bought one of these and still has one, especially with proof they came from this lot, I would be GREATLY interested!!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-1.jpg

I remember those and the story attached at the time. Hard to actually say who did what from then. Just where they came from. If serial numbers were recorded then great, if not then they could crop up anywhere...

It was reported, more or less authoritatively, that F.O. did get rifles from the Philippines. Under what circumstances and where, are, of course, not known.

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

It was reported, more or less authoritatively, that F.O. did get rifles from the Philippines.

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I saw that part and the initial survey of the rifles made that very easy to believe.

I was involved in trying to get m1 grand rifles from the Philippines a few years ago. Spent two years without
results! While we were at it, the military,under advise from US military, was cutting 1903s,1917s, tsmgs,m1
carbines,m1 garand, local made licensed copies of m16s into three pieces with chop saws. 8 hours a day
in a storage depot. I don't think there are many left. Thought about buying it for parts salvage, but they wanted
to truck it out.

I would be interested in buying one of the 1991 imports - I think hoping those still over there get imported is a "siren song" that will probably never be answered.[COLOR="black"]

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

I actually located a M1903 from a private owner in the Philippines

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As in a battlefield pickup?

We didn't get that far - the gent had just agreed to sell it. But I checked with a couple of places who specialized in importing rifles from abroad and they said importing a military rifle from the Philippines was nigh on impossible.

Too bad, I remember the others you spoke of and didn't even question their authenticity at the time, they looked the part. A pickup from over there is about scarce as hen's teeth.

Maybe some records will surface indicating 1903 serial numbers with Philippine service ? There was a partial list of 1903 serial numbers from those rifles recovered on Wake Island after the Japanese surrender in 1945

A pickup would do no good, since no way to import it. I was given a list of those rifles in SRS that were assigned to the Philippine Scouts.

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

no way to import it

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I understand that, it would just be nice to have. Wonder if I could get such a thing imported? I should look into that...

You had better take a lot of "tea money" as the Chinese say. I think it is to late for any imports from
there to the Dominion. I don't think they stopped the chop saws

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Originally Posted by can14

You had better take a lot of "tea money"

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I believe you...

During the Clinton administration The arsenal at Anniston Ala. had the grinders working full blast for months until Congress shut the operation down. A gentleman that was a honcho there, often mentioned on the old Culver page by the name Orest I believe said he had no choice. They would bring him a truckload and into the grinders they went.

Carter was doing the same and the rumor was that under Carter hundreds of 55 gallon drums were filled with .45's most still new in box and then filled with concrete and sent to the bottom of the sea. If it's true I wonder how many Singers or USS were destroyed.

The rumor also is under Clinton after he was stopped from destroying them instead he sent thousands of M14's to the Poles. Those same M14's that we are now buying commercially so our boys in the sandboxes have something that shoots farter than the mouse gun.

Rick, who told you it was impossible to import to the US? Is it due to the seller being in the Philippines, or due to any other reason? This year I sold guns to someone in the US, it was not much of a big issue. He obtained the import permit (a befriended dealer did it for him), I did the same for the export permits. He picked up the items in person since it was cheaper than to have them shipped - plus there was an excemption for collectors items brought in person, which then don't need to be importer marked (I've been told).

I know you regularly import/export and would probably know. When the possibility of buying a M1903 from the Philippines (this was admittedly about 8-10 years ago), I was told to contact Simpson, Ltd. They told me to import a military rifle from the Philippines was extremely difficult and would involve lots of money and paperwork. I assumed they knew what they were talking about and dropped it.

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

I was told to contact Simpson, Ltd.

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They've certainly done their share, for sure...

It's impossible right now because U.S. military surplus firearms need a retransfer authorization from the U.S. Department of State before BATFE Imports Branch will approve the import permit. The retransfers were banned by executive order in September 2013. Lets hope that this executive order will be rescinded by the incoming administration. I can't see how an import from the Philippines is any different or difficult than one from anywhere else. Many of the lesser expensive 1911/1911A1 clones plus other firearms and parts are regularly imported from the Philippines.

Rick, if it is easier I can import it to Europe and then get it to you in the US.

The rifle I mentioned was about 9 years ago. But I'll keep your kind gesture in mind if something like that comes up again. :bow:

The issues we had going to the Philippines was: no one could decide if it was lend lease military aid or
did they pay for it. While that was happening they were chopping up the samples! The US military was
getting them good saws to cut it in three pieces. The Crown of Canada had no issues with what we wanted,
just pay the landing taxes! They paid for a lot of it, but two years of trips and no decisions,we gave up.

The M1917s going to the Philippines were "sold" to the Commonwealth government (admittedly for a very good price). The Philippine Scouts were still a part of the U.S. Army, so they were issued equipment and weapons, just like any other unit.

FedOrd was well known for "puffery". They sold a lot of guns, parts and baloney. They had a pile of Argentine 98's and I wanted one. I went through the entire store and did not find a decent keeper. Not over-priced, either, but no keepers. I did buy a '03 high number receiver from the PI stash.

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Originally Posted by TDH

During the Clinton administration The arsenal at Anniston Ala. had the grinders working full blast for months until Congress shut the operation down. A gentleman that was a honcho there, often mentioned on the old Culver page by the name Orest I believe said he had no choice. They would bring him a truckload and into the grinders they went.

Carter was doing the same and the rumor was that under Carter hundreds of 55 gallon drums were filled with .45's most still new in box and then filled with concrete and sent to the bottom of the sea. If it's true I wonder how many Singers or USS were destroyed.

The rumor also is under Clinton after he was stopped from destroying them instead he sent thousands of M14's to the Poles. Those same M14's that we are now buying commercially so our boys in the sandboxes have something that shoots farter than the mouse gun.

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They went to the Baltics, and there's more of a story to that...a former Army officer with Lithuanian roots went over to help his ancestral nation build a new army (the Soviets literally took everything when they pulled out) and he was a big proponent of the M14.

The full M14 story is long and odd. They actually were meant for an M14 NM program. Very long story with a nasty kick in rear ending. Yes they did end up in Baltic States, with no spare parts. Another twist in this tale.

I was fortunate enough to get a tour of warehouse 10 and 13 in Camp Aguinaldo. They still have about 50,000 Garands in unissued condition neatly stored in cages. most of the 1903s have been issued to civilian auxiliaries and are probably in bad condition due to lhumidity, lack of care etc. I heard the US JUSMAG has been trying to get the Garands back, depending on the political climate in CONUS. They also had a lot of spare parts, brand new M1 Carbine barrels and 15 round magazines and oilers.

Welcome to the forum.

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Originally Posted by zambowhite

about 50,000 Garands in unissued condition

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Wouldn't that be nice...

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Originally Posted by zambowhite

I was fortunate enough to get a tour of warehouse 10 and 13 in Camp Aguinaldo. They still have about 50,000 Garands in unissued condition neatly stored in cages. most of the 1903s have been issued to civilian auxiliaries and are probably in bad condition due to lhumidity, lack of care etc. I heard the US JUSMAG has been trying to get the Garands back, depending on the political climate in CONUS. They also had a lot of spare parts, brand new M1 Carbine barrels and 15 round magazines and oilers.

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Even with a more favorable administration, come January 20, with the recent strain in U.S. Philippine relations, I wouldn't hold your breath.