Serial number 338 is listed on Julia Auction
Wonder how it is being listed:
restored gas trap
gas trap rebuild
original rifle
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Serial number 338 is listed on Julia Auction
Wonder how it is being listed:
restored gas trap
gas trap rebuild
original rifle
Can't find the write up but here's the stolen pics. All watermarked for Julia...nice looking rifle for sure. This one will cost a fortune.Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
very nice,,,how much
Well, some time ago a much lesser rifle sold for $60,000 USD.
That was Burt Kellerstedt's gun and was a total restoration. Many of the parts were the wrong ones for that serial because nobody knew much about Gas Traps back then. The last part he needed for it was a numbered stacking swivel... I had recently found one and assumed they must be common, so gave it to him. It took me 20 years to find another one.
The gun sure wasn't that nice when I examined it in the Seventies.
Sort of graveyard humor there...who'd have known it would be this way?Quote:
Originally Posted by bob seijas
I could never understand the story about s/n 338 being rebuild with later gas trap parts - but also having the guide ribs corrected by welding and still re-issued as a gas trap rifle ?
I thought that when the gas trap rifles were cycled in for rebuild both the guide ribs and new front end were installed, but there could have been exceptionshttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/e1dk79-1.jpg
I think Burt found the receiver and restored it from the ground up. In those days Gas Trap parts were available with some looking. Burt always seemed to be able to turn up Gas Trap barrels, I bought two through him.
Were they in any kind of shape then? Not burnouts? I guess they all got eaten up and remounted...Quote:
Originally Posted by bob seijas
They were used but nice. When SA finally changed to Gas Port, every machinist had a Gas Trap barrel in his tool box as a PRY BAR... they were mostly take-offs.
One that I bought from Burt was marked WRA... Winchester never made Gas Traps, so either it's a fake or a trial piece from the earliest contract days.
Makes sense for take offs. They'd be good rifles sent in for re-build I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by bob seijas
In 1987, I did install a like new gas trap barrel D-28286 B-1 in serial number 23025 (I keep a log of all barrel installations/removed) bet the owner thinks it is original now !
Last gas trap barrel that I traded for was in Carson City in 2002, traded some wood and cash, barrel had a T.E. of just over 3.0 nice bore too
Like many of the things we've sorted out over the decades, with time they become original and a scarce variation...Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
Yeah, that's the standard drill... a guy makes something "just to have a representative piece" and eventually sells it with full disclosure. The new owner may or may not resell it as a reconstruction, but the next guy calls it original, and it is "original" from then on.
Also a check of the serial number 23025 will show the receiver was among a group imported in the early 1980's. Collectors should do all the homework possible before the
purchase of any complete gas trap
There were a few 4/5 digit numbered guns in the Danish lot Springfield in original finish is what I have
I had the chance to purchase SA 153 and SA 154 several years back from widely separated vendors...but they wanted far too much.
They had a Gas Trap at Benicia Army Depot had hung in the Small Arms Branch. It was there for years. When they shut down the Depot it disappeared. I know a local Bay Area collector has/had it and it was a real, true Gas Trap. It has not been seen here in years. I wonder where it went.
I'm guessing that was the very late one that showed up with Bill Ziegler at San Francisco Gun Exchange. It solved the mystery of the late -1 gas trap cylinder. Before that we were all convinced that parts numbering was completely regular, with dashes first, then no dash and a space, then no space, then no number. The -1 cylinder was a puzzle because there didn't seem to be room for it between numbered cylinders in the low 20,000 range and no numbers in the 23,000 range unless only a very few were produced. Then this one turned up with a -1 cylinder and it hit me like a ton of bricks: the -1 was later and came after the others! I remember writing a breathless letter to the other collectors that the mystery was solved! :)
When is this gun slated to sell? I'd love to find out the tail end of this...
listed as "Rare and Spectacular Springfield Garand Gas Trap SN 338, Believed To Be the Finest in Existence":)
Benicia Depot shutdown in 1964(?). So the rifle disappears about that timeframe. I think the owner held on to it for many years and in/around the early 1990's conversation started up on it. If I recall it correctly, the buyer paid $1500.00 to get ahold of it. I do know a collector had bought it and it went into his private collection. That is where I lose track of it. Lots of funny stuff occurred when the Depot shutdown. They had a huge sale of parts, M1917, M1903, and all other stuff. What they didn't sell went off to the Base Dump. True.
I don't think so... just from the three pix RCS provided the gas cylinder looks refinished, front sight is wrong, I don't see any numbers on the handguards or a stock cartouche. I haven't looked it up on Julia for better pix.
The Ziegler gun turned up in the late 1970s... serial was 46195, by far the latest Gas Trap known at the time.
well they believe it to be:lol: - remember when they had the Wardor Garand that belonged to David Carradine - I was surprised that they were not up to speed on M1's - they have a mint Singer 1911 in the March auction cant wait to see what that one goes forQuote:
Originally Posted by bob seijas
I would enter my 1684 in the competition. The serial is ground off for presentation as a retirement gift, and the stock has no cartouche because it was not delivered, but the rest is mint and all original to the first production contract, including the welded seam rod. Also in the contest would be 19059 that was sold out of the Burt Kellerstedt collection, totally original and near mint. Both were featured in the GCA Journal in the past.
I noticed that serial number 338 is going to start at $35,000 on auction
I'll bet they get it all too.
I got a 4 digit from CMP auction a few years back, and have half the numbered parts. The other half are unobtainium, so I've toyed with a 7.62x 51 build with it.
I believe I saw this rifle at the SOS for sale a few years ago for $40k. I cannot find it in my notes but I'm thinking this is the one.
That was the one at the SOS show. She sold for 46,000.00 with buyers premium ... WOW. It was a good day for the seller and the auction house .
I recall about 20 years back(?) I was at the Vallejo, CA Gunshow and a dealer had Garand 1313 on his table with no takers. I took a hard look at it and I should have grabbed it. But money was scarce then and I had battled Hodgkins and was not too chipper. The Garand was a 1964 rebuild with all new parts and a birch stock. Looked nice to me but I passed on it. Anybody ever hear of 1313?? Odd SN and I still remember it.
Here is another four digit, this one is quite rareAttachment 83724
Is that one yours?Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
Probably built in the first 10 days of May 1938.
SRS records indicate that s/n 1607 was sent to Winchester on Sept 19, 1938, for examination. was also test fired by Winchester.
Very early time period to send out an example of the "new" M1 Rifle. It would appear
that Remington nor any other potential manufacturer were not included.Attachment 83842
the rear sight has been changed, should be locking bar style
look at his daughters, just see the locking bar
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/...re-id640460503
Garand's daughter is holding an early "gas trap" rifle (note the difference between the two rifle front ends) . The gas trap rifle in original configuration never had a lock bar on the rear sight
yer it did
http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/...CF9A3B5AD8B9B0
gas trap garand NUMBER 1
Any information on serial number 7898 which I have?Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
Thanks
--fjruple
I do not have any information on s/n 7898, but sn 7114 was the subject of a secret British trials program (Billy Pyle's book: The Gas Trap Garand) and even converted to full auto around 1939.
I believe it is still in the MoD Pattern Room Collection
Yes, I examined it in the Royal Pattern Room over 30 years ago (that's how Billy first got the data). It was the first time we had seen or heard of an SA trigger stamped A.
RCS--Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
Thanks for looking for me.
--fjruple
fjruple, there may be additional Springfield Research serial number data on the M1 rifles as I do not have the complete set.
Your s/n 7898 rifle, is it still a gas trap or gas port conversion ?
RCS--Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
When I acquired the rifle it came from the Blue Sky guns that was from South Korean lot that came into the US. The rifle was rebuilt in the late 1940's as part of the major rebuild program after WWII from the barrel date on the barrel. So I imagine it had been rebuilt at least once before from a gas trap to a gas port before WWII. The receiver has the 7th round weld repair. The rifle is currently wearing a .308 Winchester Douglas Premium air-guaged Match barrel. The rifle is a tack driver.
--fjruple