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Hello all,
Tried to submit a PM, but it says I have to post first so this is kinda just checking a box.
The reason I was sending a PM was Im looking to see if I can find someone who is pretty knowledgeable on original inlands and if I could pick there brain. I know some guys don't like to call themselves experts, but I'll take any recommendations. thanks
Welcome to the forum. What you can do is post a string of pics and these guys will give you the feedback you seek. Lots have done it before you...
I received a PM from mja_20 and requested he email pics of his Inland to me at badger@milsurps.com.
When I receive them, I'll update this thread ..
Regards,
Doug
I've been talking to him also and suggested he create a thread to verify this carbine...watch and shoot here...
Not shy here........ I'm an Expert :cool:
Just having a little trouble remembering what it was I was so Damn good at? :confused:
Cheers,
Charlie-painter777
Have at it. Does it look original or put together?
Gunbroker Auction - Fine WW2 USGI .30 Carbine Garand ALL CORRECT NR - ALL ORIGINAL Vet Bring-Back Mid-1943 Type 1 RARE
Anyone recall which CC newsletter had the great right up by Newscotlander covering the Inland 6 digits?
Charlie, if you haven't already found it it's issue 346 that deals with Inland's first production block.Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
1st off, cost isn't my concern.
May I ask if all will look past price and story and just inspect the carbine, Thx!
From what I see, most everything checks out...... couple concerns I'll get to later....
Barrel/receiver look to be original finish. As we know Inland sandblasted the upper metal and applied finish with frt sight, barrel band and rear sight on. Pictures show that 2 tone finish we find on original Inland finish. Looking closely/magnified I can see frt sight install marks with finish over them. The N marked frt sight is correct for this serial range and has the correct staking on the pin, IMO meaning it's never been removed. You can see where the rounded face type I band set in front of the gas cylinder , voiding finish in that area, as should be expected. These round faced 3 weld type bands marked with the upside down U were found in this serial range, along with unmarked swivels, THOUGH I'm not positive about the swivel it looks real but just not positive. The swivel screw sure looks real. Hopefully someone better schooled on swivels can make that call. The Rear flip sight is real and were often found in this serial range being marked W~. I can see room under the sights base where it's seated and have seen this on many others especially SG and S'G' carbines. It's where they were milled a bit deeper than needed. But It's staked using the chisel method and I believe original to this carbine.
Bolt, though lacking good color pictures looks to have original finish/blued, but have concerns whether it has the pointed right lug, which isn't believed to have been used this early in this serial#. This bolt is marked OI with the sideways 2, which has been found in this serial range. No idea of the bolt's internals, not mentioned in the description or shown in pics. You can see that the Extractor has a factory blued finish. The Op slide looks to have the
narrow arm joint, we call a type III plus by having the PI underlined, I feel ok with it being a correct part for this serial number. Trigger housing has the beveled rear lugs, where it connects to the receiver, do believe this would be a type II, correct for your range. HI Dogleg hammer common to this range, same as your mag catch. A RI sear also correct. Can't see who made the trigger.... but it does have correct blued finish.
Stock is what we call a Type II because of having a oval style oiler slot and Hi-wood right rail. Marked OI in the slingwell means made by S.E. Overton Co for Inland. Look inside the stock's channel and you'll see some green/purple-ish number ink stamps. I tried magnified and think I see 108 3, if correct this would stand for the 108th day of 1943, it's a Julian style dating system used by Inland. Your upper Hand guard also OI, called a type I, having a wide/deep sighting groove with 2 rivet mounting tab. The Ordnance stamp= Crossed Cannons stamp looks legit. Circled P proof stamp on the bottom of the pistol grip is found on these early Inlands along with a few other makers.
Condition of the bore, muzzle and chamber wear would be nice to know, also if any import markings are present, which would be odd on a carbine advertised as a bring back!
Going by what pictures are available I can't help but I miss some and know there are other opinions out there but though it's had its share of use, I feel this is a good example of what may very well be original.
I Do Hope I'm Right.......
HTH,
Charlie-painter777
Charlie, my closest Inland is 476K and it pretty much matches this one, but I'll have to check on the bolt markings and the mag catch. I don't have the CCNL's so not sure about this one (as well as mine) having the later hammer spring. Also, mine has the narrow groove 2 rivet hand guard - again not sure when these were first used. My Julian date number appears to be the 147th day. Would be nice to see close ups of the hammer strike area, and a picture of the buttplate. I bet the buttplate has horizontal checkering (like mine) and they were nervous about showing it. Good Job! :cheers: - Bob
THX Deldriver, that's the one missing from the pile, maybe in with the last 2 data sheets I did, both Inland 6 digits. I'll find it and grade myself.
USGI,
Remember Inland used both the horizontal and diagonal plates in this first block. Inland had 2 suppliers of butt plates. I know Seymour was one and thought to be the maker/suppliers of the square/horizontal plate.
The diagonals also used, I just can't remember the makers name......... something like C&G Co (?)
Charlie
USGI,
I do believe your carbine is ok with a 26 coil.
I know they were using both the early 22 and later 26 coil in your range. 26 coil was in use before the flat hammer came in use.
I'd think your fine.
Charlie
USGI, I found a note here where I have ballpark figures about Inlands use of T1 and T2 Hg's. At about ~250k the shallow type II HG was most commonly found on thought to be originals, of course there was overlap.
I learned a lot from this review and copied the pics on the auction site for future reference. Round faced type one band with upside down U for the serial range in particular. Thanks!!Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
ps. another of my questions was answered by CCN 346 that states that both round and flat faced were used. Lots of good info in there I breezed over the first time I read it.
I missed commenting on "One of my concerns", maybe side tracked when rambling on about the Julian dating system.
The Hand Guard: Though serial range correct, just doesn't seem to show the wear that the stock shows. Pictures aren't the greatest, but it appears to have much less wear and tear.
I do believe this stock could look really nice after a deep cleaning and some fresh oil.
Thx to an inquire by fellow member New2Brass, I more than likely would have forgot about this concern.
Noooo, I did forget! :banghead:
Sometimes it's hard to keep all things straight when your trying to look over 3 or 4 carbines at a time for members.
Cheers
Charlie-painter777
P.S. HD, I still haven't found NL #346, But was hoping I was close.
Appreciate the kind words.
Charlie, I noticed the hand guard too. I'm thinking it might have been changed in an attempt to make it "correct." Tried to post earlier, but Windows 10 wants to have me look at "little blue circles" - that gets old. Will restart the thing or maybe just go to an older computer and post again later. The bolt on my 476K Inland is marked "O.I. 3" and my data sheet is checked off as it being a rounded lug - but not sure and have a question mark there. It's kind of pointed, too! The barrel is an undated Inland. Have another Inland 755K and the barrel is dated 7-43. For some reason, I have a note about the 26 coil hammer spring being "opposite" wound. I'll check into that later. I knew about the two types of buttplates being used, but had been advised on the site earlier that the hammer spring had been changed out. :cheers: - Bob
I checked more data sheet info on my Inland 476K and found it has an "EI" marked mag catch, "W.I." extractor, and "NI" firing pin. The swivel is unmarked, but the barrel band has an upside down "UI" - but it could be just a "U" with an indent from the edge of the stamp next to it. What do you guys think? I'll attach a picture. Another similarity to the OP's Inland is the band spring with a "line" on it. I couldn't find a picture showing the "opposite" wound hammer spring I mentioned - will have to recheck that next time I have it out of the wood. - Bob
Pointed vs rounded is a bit misleading. If you look at data sheet you will see that the most forward part of lug is what to look at. If it is at top of lug it is referred as rounded. However it can be pointy or rounded.Quote:
Originally Posted by USGI
If the most forward part is I. The middle of the lug it is called pointed. These can be rounded looking.
Basically by lowering the point of contact it increased the dwell time of bolt opening. (It delays time for bolt to open)
This was done to decrease flash at breech. The gasses were allowed to get further down the barrel before unlocking bolt.
Later slides also were made to increase dwell.
The great thing here is the parts do not have to match. Early or late and the carbine functions just fine.